Weird, R1's are delayed yet again, but amazon van has no delays?

Dersies

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Eh, I wouldn't say exactly the only shot. California is a Loooonng coastal state. Why they haven't researched into harvesting all that hydro-electric ocean wave energy (which, admittedly, it's not as simple to do) is surprising to me. They manage to tap into that, it would be one heck of a renewable energy source not just for Cali, but for that region of the States. I'm hoping Texas and Florida (especially Florida) tap into that soon too.
Anybody have info on this type of energy production. I can't imagine it being that much pre square mile. Think about how big your production areas would be. Compared to off shore wind can't be worth it yet.
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Dersies

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Eh, I wouldn't say exactly the only shot. California is a Loooonng coastal state. Why they haven't researched into harvesting all that hydro-electric ocean wave energy (which, admittedly, it's not as simple to do) is surprising to me. They manage to tap into that, it would be one heck of a renewable energy source not just for Cali, but for that region of the States. I'm hoping Texas and Florida (especially Florida) tap into that soon too.
Nuclear "could" have been an option but the perception to it is bad. Smaller nuclear that reuses the larger plants material is a promising local generation that could help alot of the rural areas in northern California, especially with the cannabis grows.
 

Dersies

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Do you mean fossil fuel generation, since every solar panel installed is new generation.
 

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Anybody have info on this type of energy production. I can't imagine it being that much pre square mile. Think about how big your production areas would be. Compared to off shore wind can't be worth it yet.
Yeah. There are several ways to approach it, and as with most offshore systems there are a lot of difficulties with implementation offshore. There have been a few pilot projects in the U.S., but they don't seem to pencil out. At least so far.
 

mkhuffman

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A post about Amazon vans devolves into energy production. So to answer the point made by the OP, I think it is totally believable that Amazon and their huge investment in Rivian would get priority over everything else. They can delay consumer orders a few months because we are not providing $700M in capital for Rivian to build out their factory and hire all the people needed to manufacture and distribute vehicles.

As far as energy production goes, I don't understand why we can't let the free market determine what is best. Government running energy production will result in less energy, more expensive energy, and less ability for us to charge our vehicles. When we want more, we should never hand it over to the government, because that pretty much guarantees we will get less and at a higher price.
 

crashmtb

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A post about Amazon vans devolves into energy production. So to answer the point made by the OP, I think it is totally believable that Amazon and their huge investment in Rivian would get priority over everything else. They can delay consumer orders a few months because we are not providing $700M in capital for Rivian to build out their factory and hire all the people needed to manufacture and distribute vehicles.
this much is clear. In any business making things, the largest customer, with real actual sold orders will always be #1

As far as energy production goes, I don't understand why we can't let the free market determine what is best. Government running energy production will result in less energy, more expensive energy, and less ability for us to charge our vehicles. When we want more, we should never hand it over to the government, because that pretty much guarantees we will get less and at a higher price.
This is demonstrably false. it’s like saying the fire department would have more, better fire trucks and they’d be cheaper too if government didn’t run fire departments.

Where I live, electricity is around $0.08/kWh. The electricity/natural gas company is owned by the government. Rates are overseen by a public utility board which reviews any changes.

in the next province over, the government privatized their electrical utility. Their rates are around $0.13/kWh at the low end if you’re lucky to be in an area that is on that tier, and customer service and reliabilty has diminished since privatization etc.

How well has deregulation of the energy sector, allowing the “free market“ to decide worked out for, say, Texas?
 

crashmtb

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Manitoba and Ontario.

Manitoba Hydro has export agreements, for instsnce $500mm to export electricity to Saskatchewan(which itself has a provincially owned power utility, but higher rates as they’re mostly on coal and gas).
Export sales are only about 20% of their revenue.

In fact, the government uses profits from Hydro to subsidize other things. Not the other way round. Kind of bleeding it dry currently…
 

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Scotland is the current leader in tidal power. It works, but it’s pretty expensive.
 

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No way Texas or even Florida consider wave energy until the fossil fuel industries grip on those states is broken.
I wouldn't exactly say that regarding Florida. They just replaced their last coal fired power plant in favor of a Solar power plant. No more coal in F L A. They do still use natural gas plants in tandem with the solar ones. But that just leads me to believe they will start the process to change those plants now that they've tackled coal plants.

Compared to off shore wind can't be worth it yet.
The biggest issue the U.S. faces regarding wind tech is that we are the country that is farthest behind on the technology (as sad as that sounds). It's something we won't take more seriously till someone lights a proverbial match under our butts to catch up on it. Alas, it is also the most expensive renewable energy source to invest into.

Nuclear "could" have been an option but the perception to it is bad.
I dunno about you, but I don't want Japan's problems falling on us. They can keep Godzilla in that side of the world 😁😉
 

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As far as energy production goes, I don't understand why we can't let the free market determine what is best. Government running energy production will result in less energy, more expensive energy, and less ability for us to charge our vehicles. When we want more, we should never hand it over to the government, because that pretty much guarantees we will get less and at a higher price.
Because private industry in capitalists societies has proven consistently that profit for themselves takes precedence over “the greater good”. Private industry will, and has proven this over time, knowingly destroy the environment if they personally can profit from it. That’s why we have regulations.
 

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Scotland is the current leader in tidal power. It works, but it’s pretty expensive.
Scotland is much smaller than the US. They probably have to use the tidal energy because of a lack of space and resources.
 

Dersies

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this much is clear. In any business making things, the largest customer, with real actual sold orders will always be #1


This is demonstrably false. it’s like saying the fire department would have more, better fire trucks and they’d be cheaper too if government didn’t run fire departments.

Where I live, electricity is around $0.08/kWh. The electricity/natural gas company is owned by the government. Rates are overseen by a public utility board which reviews any changes.

in the next province over, the government privatized their electrical utility. Their rates are around $0.13/kWh at the low end if you’re lucky to be in an area that is on that tier, and customer service and reliabilty has diminished since privatization etc.

How well has deregulation of the energy sector, allowing the “free market“ to decide worked out for, say, Texas?
Every area has its own rates based on the difficulty of providing energy. Some states with ab abundance cheaper energy production and shorter distances to customers is just going to be naturally cheaper. California has very high rates but it also has problems that other states or regions don't have. I have no doubt that a government run utility would work but it won't naturally be cheaper either way.
 

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Just an fyi (in US), aside from Texas, states are not their own grid. Saying that, for example, FL closed its last coal plant does not mean that FL does not use electricity generated by coal.

Pricing is even more complicated than that. No real point of trying to argue the cost points of electricity on an EV forum.
 
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