Wassym: Rivian isn't prioritizing autonomous driving (Business Insider article)

[iansriv]

If these happened when they were using a version of FSD without the need of human supervision, it would be great example against FSD. However, these incidents have little value in the FSD discussion we are having today.

That is your opinion. And mine is that these tragic examples do have value. FSD is not fool proof and human over reliance can cause severe consequences. I'm glad Rivian is going slow.

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[DrBad]

I was excited about FSD initially, the idea of being able to go out for the evening and have your car drive you home will be a nice feature in the future, but we're far from that legally. I had Model 3 and it was fun. Just use Lyft and Uber. Add up all your possible Lyft/Uber rides and it will come in way under the $15k or whatever for all the FSD add-ons.

FSD does have its uses vs what is available now on Rivian. I had a long drive late at night from LA up through the Central Coast and being able to have the Model Y rental handle most of the driving was definitely a stress reducer for me.

 

[Eric9610]

Level 5 will require V2X infrastructure. We will get there eventually most likely 203x. Might need dedicated lanes to start and then eventually only level 5 highways. Similar to how we transitioned from horses to cars and eventually figured out they cant really coexist on the same roads.

All MB cars have had V2X for the last 10+ years and so have BMW and most other major manufacturers. How do you think real time traffic updates happen in most car navigation. tesla has been the only company not participating in V2X. Also, in Ca it is looking like any car in FSD will need a 3rd color light to show it is in FSD. Rivian and MB have already implemented this in current cars. Tesla not so much...

 

[docwhiz]

All MB cars have had V2X for the last 10+ years and so have BMW and most other major manufacturers. How do you think real time traffic updates happen in most car navigation. tesla has been the only company not participating in V2X. Also, in Ca it is looking like any car in FSD will need a 3rd color light to show it is in FSD. Rivian and MB have already implemented this in current cars. Tesla not so much...

I'm confused about terminology here.
I have been thinking of V2x as providing the ability for the car to export power to the home (V2H), grid (V2G) or another vehicle (V2V), etc. but it seems that the term is being used here to describe something else.
What is your definition of V2x ?

 

[Gen2R1T2025]

All MB cars have had V2X for the last 10+ years and so have BMW and most other major manufacturers. How do you think real time traffic updates happen in most car navigation. tesla has been the only company not participating in V2X. Also, in Ca it is looking like any car in FSD will need a 3rd color light to show it is in FSD. Rivian and MB have already implemented this in current cars. Tesla not so much...
[/QUOTE

Need the infrastructure component of the V2X as well.

 

[Eric9610]

I'm confused about terminology here.
I have been thinking of V2x as providing the ability for the car to export power to the home (V2H), grid (V2G) or another vehicle (V2V), etc. but it seems that the term is being used here to describe something else.
What is your definition of V2x ?

Vehicle-to-everything - Wikipedia

V2X describes the actual communication of car to car and car to everything. Tesla only implemented V2X 3 years ago while many other manufacturers have had this function for decades. . The next step is getting lights integrated.

 

[Krisbuggy]

Just take a page out of Porsche Macan EV’s book on innovative ADAS, that’s all is needed on how far car needs to be intelligent.
Driving experience for any adult should not be taken away.

in full support of Wassym

 

[docwhiz]

Vehicle-to-everything - Wikipedia

V2X describes the actual communication of car to car and car to everything. Tesla only implemented V2X 3 years ago while many other manufacturers have had this function for decades. . The next step is getting lights integrated.

So it's any kind of communication.
Tesla has had Bluetooth to phones, maps/navigation (connected to Tesla servers and Tesla app), vehicle to cloud/network (OTA update, diagnostics) since the beginning.
The real advantage would be vehicle to vehicle and I don't think anyone has that yet.

 

[Eric9610]

So it's any kind of communication.
Tesla has had Bluetooth to phones, maps/navigation (connected to Tesla servers and Tesla app), vehicle to cloud/network (OTA update, diagnostics) since the beginning.
The real advantage would be vehicle to vehicle and I don't think anyone has that yet.

all the brands I mentioned have V2X coms and since it's an open protocol anyone using it has access the info. Like said Tesla added this only 3 years ago.

 

[docwhiz]

all the brands I mentioned have V2X coms and since it's an open protocol anyone using it has access the info. Like said Tesla added this only 3 years ago.

So it seems you are talking about a specific protocol.
What is the protocol and what does it do?

 

[Eric9610]

So it seems you are talking about a specific protocol.
What is the protocol and what does it do?

5. Daimler view on V2X - 5GAA Policy Debate

Go to page 3.

 

[docwhiz]

5. Daimler view on V2X - 5GAA Policy Debate

Go to page 3.

Interesting

 

[strykerwsu]

Sure. They are capable of unsupervised autonomous driving, all right. If you want to call it that, but with a god awful BOATLOAD of fine print; only under certain circumstances, only up to certain speed, only on some roads, only in fair weather (dry conditions), no tunnels, no construction zones. On and On and On. Why bother.

Tesla FSD will drive me pretty much anywhere from outside my house door-to-door on pretty much any road, country roads, back, desolate roads, interstates, you name it, safely most of the time. Good luck with Mercedes cars doing even 1/8 of that.

It is just that sliver of when Tesla FSD is not safe that makes it not as safe as it needs to be, even if I am, and I am, always at the ready to intervene and take over.

I love my leased model 3, really amazing at what it can do. The problem is I don’t live in California or Arizona. The cameras are constantly having issues and disengaging FSD due to rain / snow / morning sun etc. For the couple weeks of the year weather is really nice it does work great.

 

[Kaiju]

I'm also one of those people that doesn't care in the least about self driving and rather wish there had been an option not to bear the costs for it. All I ever wanted was adaptive cruise control.

It is extremely easy for humans to become complacent and extant FSD tech is the exact worst combination of Works Most of The Time and Will Kill You or Others If You Aren't Constantly Paying Attention. All it needs to do is work fine a few times to lull people into an entirely false sense of security.

 

[DKM_R1S]

translation: "We can't afford the investment in autonomous driving."

That's perfectly okay, they have to make hard business choices with dwindling cash and need to spend precious software development dollars on features that will move units today - they don't have the cash or runway to chase Tesla, Waymo, or even GM's Cruise.

I suspect more Rivian buyers, and prospective buyers, would prefer Chromecast, more efficiency improvements in motors, electronics and control systems eeking higher EPA ranges through software optimization and app improvements.

Rivian can't cover all the bases, they are too sub-scale. But they do an incredible job punching above their weight class and adding focus should be commended.

Agree. I was surprised that they spent their “precious software development dollars” on developing Halloween themes. Sure it was fun, but seems unnecessary for a company that is losing tens of thousand of dollars on every sale.

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