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Eric9610

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But then and even if true, the tradeoff is driving a vehicle that looks nasty ugly with contraptions, big tumors and cists bulging out aplenty
The current EQS and EQE are capable of FSD unsupervised. While the looks are not amazing, they don't look like Waymo cars. MB has Lidar and radar in these cars. The problem that Tesla is faced with is Vision alone can't solve the problem, and the needed sensors are expensive. Telsa made a calculated profitability risk and went the cheap way.
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bigsky

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The current EQS and EQE are capable of FSD unsupervised. While the looks are not amazing, they don't look like Waymo cars. MB has Lidar and radar in these cars. The problem that Tesla is faced with is Vision alone can't solve the problem, and the needed sensors are expensive. Telsa made a calculated profitability risk and went the cheap way.
Sure. They are capable of unsupervised autonomous driving, all right. If you want to call it that, but with a god awful BOATLOAD of fine print; only under certain circumstances, only up to certain speed, only on some roads, only in fair weather (dry conditions), no tunnels, no construction zones. On and On and On. Why bother.

Tesla FSD will drive me pretty much anywhere from outside my house door-to-door on pretty much any road, country roads, back, desolate roads, interstates, you name it, safely most of the time. Good luck with Mercedes cars doing even 1/8 of that.

It is just that sliver of when Tesla FSD is not safe that makes it not as safe as it needs to be, even if I am, and I am, always at the ready to intervene and take over.
 

Eric9610

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Sure. They are capable of unsupervised autonomous driving, all right. If you want to call it that, but with a god awful BOATLOAD of fine print; only under certain circumstances, only up to certain speed, only on some roads, only in fair weather (dry conditions), no tunnels, no construction zones. On and On and On. Why bother.

Tesla FSD will drive me pretty much anywhere from outside my house door-to-door on pretty much any road, country roads, back, desolate roads, interstates, you name it, safely most of the time. Good luck with Mercedes cars doing even 1/8 of that.

It is just that sliver of when Tesla FSD is not safe that makes it not as safe as it needs to be, even if I am, and I am, always at the ready to intervene and take over.
In your Tesla if it's in FSD who takes the liability if it crashes? I can tell you I have had a bunch of times where I needed to intervene, or I would have been in a ditch, or the Tesla would have been totaled. Of the times I have used FSD I have had to intervene at least 50% of the time. MB takes 100% of the liability in the event of an accident when in FSD mode. In Europe it can drive at autobahn speeds and is usable in environments = to Tesla. Tesa is good but 60% of the way to true FSD.
 

Donald Stanfield

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In your Tesla if it's in FSD who takes the liability if it crashes? I can tell you I have had a bunch of times where I needed to intervene, or I would have been in a ditch, or the Tesla would have been totaled. Of the times I have used FSD I have had to intervene at least 50% of the time. MB takes 100% of the liability in the event of an accident when in FSD mode. In Europe it can drive at autobahn speeds and is usable in environments = to Tesla. Tesa is good but 60% of the way to true FSD.
A system that has this high of a failure rate shouldn’t be allowed on the roads at all.
 

Eric9610

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A system that has this high of a failure rate shouldn’t be allowed on the roads at all.
I agree, I stopped using the FSD because things I do on a daily basis it can't handle yet. I do the monthly FSD subscription and have stopped it until it gets better.

Here are examples of things you need to intervene on:

freeway on ramp and offramps that's a downward helix, Car thinks the speed limit is the freeway and accelerates to match 65mph when the posted speed is 25mph.

roundabouts

low curbs or dividers.
 

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iansriv

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The current EQS and EQE are capable of FSD unsupervised. While the looks are not amazing, they don't look like Waymo cars. MB has Lidar and radar in these cars. The problem that Tesla is faced with is Vision alone can't solve the problem, and the needed sensors are expensive. Telsa made a calculated profitability risk and went the cheap way.
MB has quietly been ahead on FSD for some time. I like the EQS. Not sure why the resale value tanked so hard. You can get a used 2023 EQS for $50k!
 

iansriv

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I agree. Rivian is better off spending the money on important things like the Halloween themes throughout the year. I hope we get a Xmas theme.
 

iansriv

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In your Tesla if it's in FSD who takes the liability if it crashes? I can tell you I have had a bunch of times where I needed to intervene, or I would have been in a ditch, or the Tesla would have been totaled. Of the times I have used FSD I have had to intervene at least 50% of the time. MB takes 100% of the liability in the event of an accident when in FSD mode. In Europe it can drive at autobahn speeds and is usable in environments = to Tesla. Tesa is good but 60% of the way to true FSD.
One of my friend's coworker was on his laptop while his car was on auto pilot. It ran into a truck and he died. Another friend knew three people that died in Newport Beach when their car hit a construction vehicle parked on the road. I hardly ever use Rivian driver+
 

Donald Stanfield

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One of my friend's coworker was on his laptop while his car was on auto pilot. It ran into a truck and he died. Another friend knew three people that died in Newport Beach when their car hit a construction vehicle parked on the road. I hardly ever use Rivian driver+
Driver+ isn't good enough that you'd stop paying attention, but it IS good enough to lighten the load on long drives. I use it all the time on long trips and it really does a great job of helping.
 

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SANZC02

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One of my friend's coworker was on his laptop while his car was on auto pilot. It ran into a truck and he died. Another friend knew three people that died in Newport Beach when their car hit a construction vehicle parked on the road. I hardly ever use Rivian driver+
Tesla Autopilot and Rivian Driver+ are just tools. There are tons of tools out there that if not used properly can cause significant injury or death. As long as people understand how to use them and what their personal responsibility is they work fine.

I only use them on long stretches of open highway during trips and they work great to reduce fatigue in that scenario.
 

R1Tom

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Driver+ isn't good enough that you'd stop paying attention, but it IS good enough to lighten the load on long drives. I use it all the time on long trips and it really does a great job of helping.
I do same....even tend to turn it off when vehicles are passing me or I am passing others. But nice for those long sections of highway....
 

allisgoodman

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One of my friend's coworker was on his laptop while his car was on auto pilot. It ran into a truck and he died. Another friend knew three people that died in Newport Beach when their car hit a construction vehicle parked on the road. I hardly ever use Rivian driver+
If these happened when they were using a version of FSD without the need of human supervision, it would be great example against FSD. However, these incidents have little value in the FSD discussion we are having today.
 

Gen2R1T2025

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Level 5 will require V2X infrastructure. We will get there eventually most likely 203x. Might need dedicated lanes to start and then eventually only level 5 highways. Similar to how we transitioned from horses to cars and eventually figured out they cant really coexist on the same roads.
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