Sponsored

Dark-Fx

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
96
Messages
9,355
Reaction score
17,740
Location
Michigan
Vehicles
Polestar 2, R1T, R1S, Livewire One, Fisker Ocean
Occupation
Engineering
Clubs
 
Maybe it was the same R1T on it's maiden voyage and it took a while for the driver to find the accelerator. "Oh!...It's THAT one! Now I understand the hype!"
Creep mode is like setting your cruise control to 2 mph.
Sponsored

 

shamoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2022
Threads
2
Messages
376
Reaction score
499
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
Porsche 911 GT3, Tesla Model S LR
Occupation
Cybersecurity
Are those Pirrellis that bad that I keep hearing mentioned "Good tires". I know they're expensive, but I've used various sized Pirellis in my vehicle usage history and they've never failed to deliver.
I don't recall what model Pirelli tires are on it, but I can't imagine it is a dedicated winter/snow tire. Probably some sort of more aggressive all season/all terrain, which is an "I can do everything somewhat okay" sort of tire.

If you're driving in just small amounts of snow, the "all season" won't give you any problems, but anything more serious and you'll have a bad time. I'm willing to bet my FWD Honda Accord with snow tires (Blizzaks) will perform the same, if not better, than an OEM Rivian in 10 inches of snow.

Manufacturers rarely put a dedicated [anything] tire on a vehicle because they are selling to the general public who will be driving on paved surfaces 99% of the time. The 1% will buy different wheels/tires. I know some more "serious" sports cars will put aggressive summer performance tires on their cars (e.g.: Michelin Pilot Supersports, etc).
 

kylealden

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kyle
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Threads
20
Messages
1,393
Reaction score
4,254
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
Rivian R1T LE, Tesla Model Y, Zero DSR/X, '69 CJ5
Occupation
Product Management
I don't recall what model Pirelli tires are on it, but I can't imagine it is a dedicated winter/snow tire. Probably some sort of more aggressive all season/all terrain, which is an "I can do everything somewhat okay" sort of tire.

If you're driving in just small amounts of snow, the "all season" won't give you any problems, but anything more serious and you'll have a bad time. I'm willing to bet my FWD Honda Accord with snow tires (Blizzaks) will perform the same, if not better, than an OEM Rivian in 10 inches of snow.

Manufacturers rarely put a dedicated [anything] tire on a vehicle because they are selling to the general public who will be driving on paved surfaces 99% of the time. The 1% will buy different wheels/tires. I know some more "serious" sports cars will put aggressive summer performance tires on their cars (e.g.: Michelin Pilot Supersports, etc).
It's a three-peaks snow rated All Terrain tire. For a truck the size of the Rivian, there isn't much better you can do for deep snow beyond chains or a studded tire. I think your Accord will be surprised.

The biggest advantages the Rivian will have are the four-motor drive and ground clearance (and weight distribution, compared to other trucks). But it's very heavy - good for traction, but a lot of weight to start or stop.

It will probably underperform a decent AWD sedan with Blizzaks or similar winter tires on hard-packed snow and ice, where the weight and tread pattern put it at a disadvantage; but it will power through powder, where a chunky AT tire and ground clearance matter a lot more than siping and tire compound.

(I have quite nice Sottozeros on my Tesla and have only gotten stuck when I run out of clearance, which doesn't take very long. When the Rivian runs out of clearance, you just go into the menu and add a few inches ?)
 

shamoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2022
Threads
2
Messages
376
Reaction score
499
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
Porsche 911 GT3, Tesla Model S LR
Occupation
Cybersecurity
It's a three-peaks snow rated All Terrain tire. For a truck the size of the Rivian, there isn't much better you can do for deep snow beyond chains or a studded tire. I think your Accord will be surprised.

The biggest advantages the Rivian will have are the four-motor drive and ground clearance (and weight distribution, compared to other trucks). But it's very heavy - good for traction, but a lot of weight to start or stop.

It will probably underperform a decent AWD sedan with Blizzaks or similar winter tires on hard-packed snow and ice, where the weight and tread pattern put it at a disadvantage; but it will power through powder, where a chunky AT tire and ground clearance matter a lot more than siping and tire compound.

(I have quite nice Sottozeros on my Tesla and have only gotten stuck when I run out of clearance, which doesn't take very long. When the Rivian runs out of clearance, you just go into the menu and add a few inches ?)
I definitely don't have anything bad to say about Rivian, and the fact that it is a big truck with high ground clearance probably would put my Accord to shame. Maybe I should have compared it to a general AWD SUV which my Accord + snow tires can run circles around. :p

Bad comparison on my part. Just trying to highlight how important good tires are, which looks like you understand quite well.
 

Sponsored

kylealden

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kyle
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Threads
20
Messages
1,393
Reaction score
4,254
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
Rivian R1T LE, Tesla Model Y, Zero DSR/X, '69 CJ5
Occupation
Product Management
I definitely don't have anything bad to say about Rivian, and the fact that it is a big truck with high ground clearance probably would put my Accord to shame. Maybe I should have compared it to a general AWD SUV which my Accord + snow tires can run circles around. :p

Bad comparison on my part. Just trying to highlight how important good tires are, which looks like you understand quite well.
I think we're on the same page ? The biggest eye-roller to me is when people think the Subaru badge or lift kit or horsepower or whatever of their rig is going to make it a wizard in the snow. Traction is all that matters, and nothing matters more to traction than the rubber that meets the road.

Once you have good tires, you can start making incremental improvements around the margins with AWD, ESC, ground clearance, and more exotic features. But if it's snowy/icy, I'll take a 1984 Corolla with winter tires over a 2022 Subaru with bald all-seasons any day of the week.
 

DuckTruck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Duck
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
6,228
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Corvair, BMW325, Acura Legend, XC60, '16 Caddy ELR
Clubs
 
I think we're on the same page ? The biggest eye-roller to me is when people think the Subaru badge or lift kit or horsepower or whatever of their rig is going to make it a wizard in the snow. Traction is all that matters, and nothing matters more to traction than the rubber that meets the road.

Once you have good tires, you can start making incremental improvements around the margins with AWD, ESC, ground clearance, and more exotic features. But if it's snowy/icy, I'll take a 1984 Corolla with winter tires over a 2022 Subaru with bald all-seasons any day of the week.
Kyle,

I think we've all been there at one time. I remember getting sneered at when I lived in Southeast Idaho and used to drive my Volkswagen Sirocco judiciously in the ice and snow, with my studded tires. Invariably, someone in a big 4WD truck would fly around me and give me the stink eye. All too often, I would pass them a few miles later as they were sitting sideways in the ditch.

A tall vehicle already, add a lift kit and a nice set of big, wide mud tires, and then go flying through the snow and ice! What could possibly go wrong?

It was always fun to mess with them when I'd roll up on the site of the rollover:

M.. "Hey cowboy! You look like you're in trouble. Can I help?"

H.. "Well. I am kind a thirsty."

M.. "Have you ever tried a fine dose of inertia swirled over ice and then shaken briskly? It can be quite an experience!"

H.. "No. Can't say I can recall ever experiencing one of those. What do they call that drink?

M.. "A 'metal bender' "

H.. "Well, hell, why not, it sounds OK"

M.. "Fine, I'll make you another."

H.. "Huh? But I haven't even had my first one yet"

M.. "Why sure you have! Go out and look at your truck. All the ingredients are right there."

That place never looked better than it did in the rearview mirror on my way home to Portland.
 

IPTV65

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
254
Reaction score
374
Location
Mount Pleasant SC
Vehicles
Jeep JLU Sahara,Jeep JKU, Infiniti G37X, R1S
Occupation
Engineering Exec
Clubs
 

OrthoBlock

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Threads
7
Messages
117
Reaction score
206
Location
Philly Area
Vehicles
R1T, X5 PHEV
I'm willing to bet my FWD Honda Accord with snow tires (Blizzaks) will perform the same, if not better, than an OEM Rivian in 10 inches of snow.
While I agree with the conceptual point that I believe you're making (tires make a big difference.) Based on my own relatively broad experience with different tires (many variations of dedicated winter, studded winter, AT, MT, summer, etc.) I think your 1-wheel drive (front wheel drive with open diff, with possibly some brake assisted traction control) car would lose that bet more than it would win.

General driving on snow covered/icy roads, your winter tires would undoubtedly outperform, but in deep snow--even adjusting for ground clearance [i.e., let's say you're not dragging the bottom of your car in snow--in my experience a 4-wheel driven vehicle with AT tires will outperform most of the time.

In fact, in my personal experience, in deeper snow conditions (not packed snow or ice) AT tires often outperform dedicated snow tires and/or MT tires. The reason seems to be the way the AT tires load up on snow (get snow stuck in the deeper/wider grooves), which allows for snow-to-snow contact that can deliver traction that is greater than rubber/short-studs against the same snow--don't ask me to explain the physics behind this, as I don't know them. Just speaking from empirical experience. (on separate note, hardcore MT tires seem to have spacing between the tread pattern that is too wide to as effectively pack with snow as the AT tires, although once the snow gets really deep and fluffy this effect seem negated, as the MT tire starts behaving much like a bid paddle wheel from an old school boat and just flings the snow around for some forward thrust.)

Anyhow, like I started: agreed with the spirit of your post, just don't quite agree with the example that was given :) Your mileage may vary.

p.s., yes, I do run dedicated snow tires on my AWD daily driver, because it's driven mainly on roads.
 

Sponsored

R1S Maineiac

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
145
Reaction score
227
Location
The Foothills of Western Maine
Vehicles
2021 Volvo CX90 Recharge PHEV
Occupation
Medically retired 8/27/21
Ah... <Insert minimal snow type and location>, but let's see if it can handle <author's personal definition of "real snow" that they never go out in anyway>
 

Max

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Threads
35
Messages
1,534
Reaction score
2,346
Location
Maryland
Vehicles
Nissan Truck
You people better stop messing with me. I thought I had settled on my road tires but now I am questioning it again. I wonder how I would do with a heavy R1S on road tires close to some of those clifs.

When the Rivian runs out of clearance, you just go into the menu and add a few inches
This is entrapment. Are you trying to get me in trouble with admin? Self control is just not my strong suit ;)

I did have the opportunity to see an RT1 heading west on I-90 about 10 miles east of Snoqualmie Summit. It was December 31st and First time I saw the truck, it was white and definitely a "looker". Weather was not too bad, just light snow, road was wet and clean. For these reasons I was a bit surprised how slow it was going, I mean SLOW (Hope I am not offending anyone BTW). That same day I ran into another RT1 (also white) heading south on I-5 (close to Tacoma). This lady was hauling @ss so I was not able to catch her. Still considering the RS1.......decisions, decisions.
It is a mater of which screen they are looking at. If it shows your power consumption in the past 15 minutes, you will have a long backup behind you.
 

RideAlong

Well-Known Member
First Name
Robert
Joined
Dec 16, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
217
Reaction score
103
Location
montevelo california
Vehicles
20 Porsche Panamera S + 19 Ford F-150
Occupation
Dentist
Not exactly a severe service example- I've been through worse , faster , in a Camaro ?
 

R1Tr8000

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
72
Reaction score
65
Location
The Rockies
Vehicles
‘99 SLK230, 22 Sequoia, 17 GLE43, 14 CnAm SxS
Occupation
Aerospace retired
While I agree with the conceptual point that I believe you're making (tires make a big difference.) Based on my own relatively broad experience with different tires (many variations of dedicated winter, studded winter, AT, MT, summer, etc.) I think your 1-wheel drive (front wheel drive with open diff, with possibly some brake assisted traction control) car would lose that bet more than it would win.

General driving on snow covered/icy roads, your winter tires would undoubtedly outperform, but in deep snow--even adjusting for ground clearance [i.e., let's say you're not dragging the bottom of your car in snow--in my experience a 4-wheel driven vehicle with AT tires will outperform most of the time.

In fact, in my personal experience, in deeper snow conditions (not packed snow or ice) AT tires often outperform dedicated snow tires and/or MT tires. The reason seems to be the way the AT tires load up on snow (get snow stuck in the deeper/wider grooves), which allows for snow-to-snow contact that can deliver traction that is greater than rubber/short-studs against the same snow--don't ask me to explain the physics behind this, as I don't know them. Just speaking from empirical experience. (on separate note, hardcore MT tires seem to have spacing between the tread pattern that is too wide to as effectively pack with snow as the AT tires, although once the snow gets really deep and fluffy this effect seem negated, as the MT tire starts behaving much like a bid paddle wheel from an old school boat and just flings the snow around for some forward thrust.)

Anyhow, like I started: agreed with the spirit of your post, just don't quite agree with the example that was given :) Your mileage may vary.

p.s., yes, I do run dedicated snow tires on my AWD daily driver, because it's driven mainly on roads.
Very good, thanks for explaining this. While a somewhat diff set of conditions..really deep bottomless sand and what type, size of tire works best also introduces physics that is hard for many to grasp. It always leads to good discussions too.
 

kizamybute'

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Threads
80
Messages
1,173
Reaction score
1,991
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicles
This one, that one and the other one.
Clubs
 
Wow, this owner was nice enough to post a video we haven't had the luxury of seeing and so many have negative comments right off the top. To the OP, thank you. I enjoyed seeing the video.

Curious, how was the range in the snow / cold weather?
Sponsored

 
 




Top