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RivianXpress

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Why is the Level 2 so low at 16 miles? My 14-50 NEMA (50A) that charges my model 3 operates at almost twice that (29 miles added per hour) using either my 10 year old wall mounted CT100 charger or the portable plug in Tesla charger.
This is very disappointing.





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kanundrum

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Pretty sure that by 140 miles in 20 minutes Rivian does not mean 140 miles of range at 70 mph. It will probably be 140 EPA miles at best possible charging conditions.

I don't count on more than 110-120 interstate miles charge in 20 minutes.
Fair enough, lets say 110 in 20 minutes. Id say not too bad as those are True miles. Again I still think that is information from the RAN, not necessarily a 350kw L3 charger.

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CommodoreAmiga

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Why is the Level 2 so low at 16 miles? My 14-50 NEMA (50A) that charges my model 3 operates at almost twice that (29 miles added per hour) using either my 10 year old wall mounted CT100 charger or the portable plug in Tesla charger.
This is very disappointing.
For starters, the "16 miles charge per hour" is using the "included" 32A charger. A 50A NEMA 14-50 would support 40A charging if you have a EVSE capable of it. A hard-wired EVSE on a 60A circuit could support up to 48A charging. (I've heard estimates of 25 miles per hour charge under such circumstances)

Secondly, the Rivian is going to consume more Watts per mile, so at a given charge rate you'll get fewer miles than a more-efficient EV.
 

slawwach

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Fair enough, lets say 110 in 20 minutes. Id say not too bad as those are True miles.
I agree. In my current car I'm getting around 60 interstate miles in 20 minutes. Anything above 100 miles in a vehicle that looks like a brick ;-) will make me happy.
 

DucRider

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A few thought assumptions on the RAN, My understanding is that they will be very limited to remote outdoor recreation type locations for the near future (2-3 years). This would place them in the destination charger category (50-150kw)
"Destination chargers" using the current definition are L2.
The one Rivian RAN site that people have sleuthed detail on show the installed units will be 200-920V, 500A, 300kW units:
https://mccmeetings.blob.core.usgov...T-Packet-ade3b33e464044ea98ee127dc2a159a2.pdf
Specs on pg 144
The installation will also have "destination chargers" - L2 240V AC units providing 48A from 60A circuits (11.5 kW)
 

mkennedy1996

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Why is the Level 2 so low at 16 miles? My 14-50 NEMA (50A) that charges my model 3 operates at almost twice that (29 miles added per hour) using either my 10 year old wall mounted CT100 charger or the portable plug in Tesla charger.
This is very disappointing.
Charging mph is derived from the efficiency of the car (energy to travel one mile) and the power available.

The biggest difference between a Model 3 and R1T/R1S is the amount of energy needed to travel one mile. The R1S will be around 430 Wh/mi while the 2021 Model 3 is rated at about 220 Wh/mi. So a Model 3 can travel almost twice the distance on the same energy. (at lest by their rated range - reality is often different).

The other difference is that the Rivian mobile charger is apparently only 32A. the car can accept an AC charger up to 48A when hard wired.
 

R1S Maineiac

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Why is the Level 2 so low at 16 miles? My 14-50 NEMA (50A) that charges my model 3 operates at almost twice that (29 miles added per hour) using either my 10 year old wall mounted CT100 charger or the portable plug in Tesla charger.
This is very disappointing.

In Tesla terminology that 16mph is probably the rating for Rivian's version of the UMC
 

MReda

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They've stated peak at 300kW, sustained at 200kW, and then "140miles in 20 minutes". To @kanundrum 's point, this is something they should be able to clear up, but it's the real world tests using the RAN sites that will really provide the info we're looking for.

For level 2, my guess is if the person who made that Youtube video had spent more time on Rivian's site and less time making that thumbnail, they could have done a better job,. The site is pretty specific that level 2 will support 25 miles of charge per hour.

The cable that comes with the truck is rated at 16 miles of charge per hour.
All of that data is on Rivian's website...16 miles of range per hour for the portable charger that comes with the vehicles and 25 miles of range per hour for the home charger that you can buy as an accessory...This ISN'T new information. It is just information that no one seems to get right...
1614088026224.png

www.rivian.com/r1t
Why is the Level 2 so low at 16 miles? My 14-50 NEMA (50A) that charges my model 3 operates at almost twice that (29 miles added per hour) using either my 10 year old wall mounted CT100 charger or the portable plug in Tesla charger.
This is very disappointing.
It's not 16 miles.
 

azbill

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Why is the Level 2 so low at 16 miles? My 14-50 NEMA (50A) that charges my model 3 operates at almost twice that (29 miles added per hour) using either my 10 year old wall mounted CT100 charger or the portable plug in Tesla charger.
This is very disappointing.
A typical L2 portable charger is limited to 30-32A, or 6.6-7KW. Most public level 2 chargers today are at this same level. My Bolt charges at 7KW maximum and that puts on 25 miles per hour of charge. My Bolt can achieve about 4 mile/KWH city driving. The Rivian is estimated at 2.2 mile/KWH (or for Tesla people that is 450W/mile), which is about half the efficiency of the Bolt or Model 3, so that is why the charging will be less miles per hour, for a charger that is limited to 7KW.

FYI, on another forum this was just posted, a video of a Rivian at and Electrify America station.


It is in cold weather, but apparently the Rivian was there charging for 2 hours, which would be an indication of a very slow charge rate.

There is also some misinformation, or miscalculations on this thread. At 150KW charging, that will add 50KWH in 20 minutes. That provides the Rivian with 110 miles in 20 minutes, not 140. It requries a charge rate of 200KW to get 140 miles in 20 minutes. 200KW charge rate is also the CCS limit for a 400V system, so that makes it unlikely Rivian has the 300KW capability that was mentioned verbally in a video.
 

mkennedy1996

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There is also some misinformation, or miscalculations on this thread. At 150KW charging, that will add 50KWH in 20 minutes. That provides the Rivian with 110 miles in 20 minutes, not 140. It requries a charge rate of 200KW to get 140 miles in 20 minutes. 200KW charge rate is also the CCS limit for a 400V system, so that makes it unlikely Rivian has the 300KW capability that was mentioned verbally in a video.
Rivian has a patent on a method to essentially double the charging voltage. It is a voltage switching mechanism that allows 800V charging on a 400V battery pack.

Patent Images (uspto.gov)

It will be interesting if they can go from patent to real world. Could that be the way RJ gets to the 300kW that he mentions in the video?
 
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kanundrum

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Rivian has a patent on a method to essentially double the charging voltage. It is a voltage switching mechanism that allows 800V charging on a 400V battery pack.

Patent Images (uspto.gov)

It will be interesting if they can go from patent to real world. Could that be the way RJ gets to the 300kW that he mentions in the video?

Exactly, patent vs real world is different. I really hope its the case.
 

DucRider

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Exactly, patent vs real world is different. I really hope its the case.
I'm hoping this is one of those patents that never gets into production and they have fully implemented an 800V system (like Porsche, Hyundai/Kia, Lucid, etc).

RJ has always said that is his goal (and that everything in the vehicles was designed to accommodate it), but component supply was the hurdle. This is no longer the case, but a lot of what they hoped to bring to production has changed. We do know that the batteries are different (smaller capacity) than first announced. What this indicated as to actual battery layout and architecture is a complete unknown
 

mkennedy1996

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I'm hoping this is one of those patents that never gets into production and they have fully implemented an 800V system (like Porsche, Hyundai/Kia, Lucid, etc).

RJ has always said that is his goal (and that everything in the vehicles was designed to accommodate it), but component supply was the hurdle. This is no longer the case, but a lot of what they hoped to bring to production has changed. We do know that the batteries are different (smaller capacity) than first announced. What this indicated as to actual battery layout and architecture is a complete unknown
I am hoping along with you. The early adopter penalty is always tough to swallow when they upgrade shortly after the early reservation holders get their vehicles (ie Tesla).

As of Dec 2018, that was (is??) Rivian's plan. Give the people that waited years for their vehicles the 400v tech and then upgrade to 800v after those orders are filled.

"While Rivian’s trucks are built around 400-volt components, they might be the first electric vehicles that have actually been designed from the start for an upgrade to 800 volts. Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe told Green Car Reports, “So we’ve architected everything in the system to see higher voltages at the right time and therefore go to much higher levels of charging...but that won’t be at day one.

Here is to hoping that the design has been fluid in the over two years since RJ was quoted and the right time is now.
 

skyote

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We do know that the motors are different than first announced due to increased HP & torque numbers. Maybe that's in conjunction with an upgrade to 800V?
 

CommodoreAmiga

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We do know that the motors are different than first announced due to increased HP & torque numbers. Maybe that's in conjunction with an upgrade to 800V?
Do we know they’re different parts? Or has Rivian simply optimized the controllers and software?
 

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