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VERY DISAPPOINTED!!! No 400+ battery until Jan. 2022?!?!?!

Kickaha

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What if 350+ on the Hummer comes in at 375? Or 400? The Hummer is using mud terrain tires to start with, and I am sure changing those tires will add additional range. Both vehicles have the + and I am sure they are both trying to be conservative to not over promise.
I think this is a key point - we dont really know what the mileage estimates are. Rivian and GMC are being conservative, and rightly so. I get that. The 135KW battery pack might get 325 miles (test track, all season tires, whatever caveats). And you are right, people might say its not that big a deal but to not be transparent is a mistake. Rivian is minimizing peoples expectations and excitement about their product.

When your product strategy has been to launch with 180KW battery pack for multiple years and then announce the configurator with the "oops, we changed our minds" message - thats just wrong.

I would have appreciated a "why". Something like - "After thorough testing, we decided that to make the best experience possible for our customers, we are redesigning our 180KW battery pack to optimize blah blah blah (insert technical jargon here). However, we understand the passion for our vehicles in the community so we are moving forward with our currently announced production date with the 135KW battery pack. Availability of the 180KW battery pack will be earlly 2022."

For me, I would have totally understood that and I think it would have disappointed people less.
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ajdelange

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Sure. Based on their statements about home charging equipment it seems that consumption will be about 420 wh/mi. 140 mile would thus require 58.8 kWh and if taken on in 1/3 of an hour that implies a loading rate of thee times that i.e. 176 kW. EA is installing 150 and 350 kW stations and Rivian has stated that the trucks will be able to take 300 kW from the latter. I assume Rivian is talking about their "Adventure Network" chargers which might be CharIn HPC150 or HPC250 compliant. Or not.
 

ajdelange

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I would have appreciated a "why". Something like - "After thorough testing, we decided that to make the best experience possible for our customers, we are redesigning our 180KW battery pack to optimize blah blah blah ..
The fact that they didn't offer one does strongly suggest that the reason is not something they want widely disseminated. That may not, in fact, be the case but their actions do suggest that.
 

skyote

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Sure. Based on their statements about home charging equipment it seems that consumption will be about 420 wh/mi. 140 mile would thus require 58.8 kWh and if taken on in 1/3 of an hour that implies a loading rate of thee times that i.e. 176 kW. EA is installing 150 and 350 kW stations and Rivian has stated that the trucks will be able to take 300 kW from the latter. I assume Rivian is talking about their "Adventure Network" chargers which might be CharIn HPC150 or HPC250 compliant. Or not.
So an average of 176 kW, likely more at times depending on taper, and obviously more if Rivian's consumption numbers are above 420 Wh/mi.

Do you have a reference on the 300 kW charging rate? @azbill might be interested in seeing that. I recalled reading it somewhere, but don't have a link.
 

skyote

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The fact that they didn't offer one does strongly suggest that the reason is not something they want widely disseminated. That may not, in fact, be the case but their actions do suggest that.
I'm not convinced of that, I'm more inclined to think it is a business decision vs. a technical limitation.
 

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ajdelange

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Rivian didn't cite charging speed, but they did mention that their charging network will be capable of "adding up to 140 miles of range in 20 minutes".
So an average of 176 kW, likely more at times depending on taper, and obviously more if Rivian's consumption numbers are above 420 Wh/mi.
It depends on what number they used when they made the statement. The time we will experience depends on the actual numbers. If we drove on wet roads our consumption will be 30% higher than normal and thus the vehicle will take longer to charge. The charger is the charger. If it is CharIn HPC250 compliant it will deliver a maximum of 250kW if the car wants that much. I think it reasonable to think that it might be HPC250 but that's only a guess.


Do you have a reference on the 300 kW charging rate? @azbill might be interested in seeing that. I recalled reading it somewhere, but don't have a link.
I don't either. RJ said it in so many words in an online video but there's no way I could find it now.
 
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ajdelange

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I'm not convinced of that, I'm more inclined to think it is a business decision vs. a technical limitation.
I'm not convinced either. It could indeed have been business decision but the fact that no explanation was offered makes one think that the underlying reason is one that they don't want seeing the light of day. They could certainly offer a business related explanation as well as any other - and they didn't.
 

thrill

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... I don't either RJ said it in so many words in an online video but there's no way I could find it now.
Posting a video link here seems to strip out the time-advance. Go to 11:20 in this video.

 
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ajdelange

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Yep. That's the one I was thinking of for sure.
 

DucRider

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When your product strategy has been to launch with 180KW battery pack for multiple years and then announce the configurator with the "oops, we changed our minds" message - thats just wrong.
As far as I know, they never stated they would be producing/shipping the 400+ mile version first. Only that it would be available at launch. The R1T will likely have that option available on Monday (but, like some other options, it will impact delivery date).
It seems that perhaps all the feedback from potential owners (on this board and in their efforts to reach out to reservation holders), the lack of 7 seats in the 400 mile version of the R1S sent them back to the drawing board. If that is the configuration you wanted it is a good thing. Having it offered later vs not at all should be in your win column.
 

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electruck

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It seems that perhaps all the feedback from potential owners (on this board and in their efforts to reach out to reservation holders), the lack of 7 seats in the 400 mile version of the R1S sent them back to the drawing board. If that is the configuration you wanted it is a good thing. Having it offered later vs not at all should be in your win column.
But they will still be shipping 5 seat R1S so what is keep them from offering the 5 seat 400+ combo at launch and the adding the 7 seat 400+ combo later? Right now they can't even give an indication of when they will be able to share info on the R1S mega-pack (180).
 

skyote

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But they will still be shipping 5 seat R1S so what is keep them from offering the 5 seat 400+ combo at launch and the adding the 7 seat 400+ combo later? Right now they can't even give an indication of when they will be able to share info on the R1S mega-pack (180).
They are obviously working on the "packaging" to accommodate both the 180 pack and the 3rd row. The 180 pack was already more of a challenge in the R1S than the R1T due to the shorter wheelbase & frame length.

I take this as a positive in that they heard the feedback from the customer base desiring the longer range WITH 3rd row. They won't want to use unique pack and/or packaging designs dependent on whether or not 3rd row is included, thus the wait until they finalize the design.
 

electruck

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The fact that they didn't offer one does strongly suggest that the reason is not something they want widely disseminated. That may not, in fact, be the case but their actions do suggest that.
There is no reason that isn't going to be offputting to at least some of their customers thus there is no value in sharing details. Having to correct an issue detected during testing would cause some to question their engineering ability. A business decision would anger those for which the decision did not work in their favor. Even if they said they were delaying so they could offer 500 miles of range, the people getting a 400 mile R1T in January 2022 would feel they were getting shorted (pun intended).
 

electruck

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They won't want to use unique pack and/or packaging designs dependent on whether or not 3rd row is included, thus the wait until they finalize the design.
Possibly. I guess that really depends on how much has to change versus how long it will take them to complete the redesign.

On that note, with overall length growing slightly (for the 2nd time now) I had initially assumed that might have been related to supporting the 3 row 180. But it appears the wheelbase is unchanged so I'm guessing the extra length is related to front/rear bumper tweaks. Which leaves us to wonder just exactly how they will package the batteries in the 3 row 180.
 

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