Vampire drain vs Lightning (& EV6)

[EV Buyers Guide]

Hey all, just wanted to let you know about a test we're currently doing and the preliminary results.

We charged our Lightning and R1T up to 100% SOC then left for 13 days. While done we checked the battery level with the app (climate off on both) every 3 days. Gear guard was off on the R1T.

Daytime temps peaked at 80 degrees, at night the low during the 2 weeks was 58. When I got back the Lightning was still at a claimed 100% (but the range estimate dropped by 5 miles indicating about 2kWh of actual consumption), and the Rivian had eaten a whopping 27% of its battery (34.7 kWh). As a comparison, the Kia EV6 was idle for the same period of time and lost 2% of its battery, but because the battery is smaller than the Ford, the actual loss is lower, about 1.5 kWh.

The R1T was *NOT* running the latest (2022.27.02) software which claims to improve the loss, however the loss was still pretty extreme. As a result of this software update we're topping the R1T back to full and then we'll leave it for 2 days to see if the daily consumption drops.

As we see in Tesla's vehicles, it seems the Rivian doesn't go into as deep a sleep as EVs made by traditional car companies. The Ford completely shutdown the infotainment system and had to fully reboot after 13 days (took about 2 minutes) and the cell modem goes into a deep sleep state where it doesn't update the app until you send a lock/unlock command over the network. The vehicle polls about every 10 minutes for that and then goes into a shallower sleep to respond to data queries but doesn't boot up the infotainment system. The Kia EV6, like all Hyundai/Kia EVs goes into an even deeper sleep mode where the cell modem turns off completely and no remote access is possible until you start the car.

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[zefram47]

Further proof Rivian really needs to do something about this. I'm tired of the Teslarati excusing this egregious use of idle power because Tesla is nearly as bad. Literally every other EV manufacturer has a handle on this and use almost nothing when not being driven.

 

[EV Buyers Guide]

Further proof Rivian really needs to do something about this. I'm tired of the Teslarati excusing this egregious use of idle power because Tesla is nearly as bad. Literally every other EV manufacturer has a handle on this and use almost nothing when not being driven.

It'll be interesting to see how/if things can be adjusted. Using one main computer for everything is the main reason Tesla's consumption is so high. The extreme integration they are applauded for is the very reason for the greater consumption. Basing the others on a mix of new parts and ICE parts bin parts ends up with greater economy because an ICE has a teeny-tiny battery so those car companies are used to trying to give come level of connected feature-set with limited power.

 

[mabowden]

How much would it cost to add an "On/off" toggle switch?

 

[Arky]

Further proof Rivian really needs to do something about this. I'm tired of the Teslarati excusing this egregious use of idle power because Tesla is nearly as bad. Literally every other EV manufacturer has a handle on this and use almost nothing when not being driven.

Agree people just shouldn't be OK with this, it's too much energy for 0 consumer value. Imagine if your car burned gas while you weren't using it, people would never accept it.

I know it's "future" and "technology" to not just have an on/off button, but if it saves 2-3kWh/day give me the damn button.

 

[Dark-Fx]

How much would it cost to add an "On/off" toggle switch?

A pair of 12V battery disconnects.

 

[DJG]

Further proof Rivian really needs to do something about this. I'm tired of the Teslarati excusing this egregious use of idle power because Tesla is nearly as bad. Literally every other EV manufacturer has a handle on this and use almost nothing when not being driven.

I'm not sure it's a case of having a handle on it, as much as it's a deliberate philosophy choice difference. I don't think anyone should expect Rivian to achieve parity with the legacy makers on idle power use, because that's not what they are targeting. They want you to have the experience of instantaneous interaction and useability, vs. having to wait for the computers to boot up like a 1997 PC. They will try to eliminate uses that don't contribute to that experience, but I don't think you'll ever see the Rivian take 2 minutes to boot up after a deep sleep.

 

[mini2nut]

I just read that article. If the Ford Lightning engineers can do it so can Rivian.

I have a company car so my personal pickup sits idle during the week. Rivian’s current vampire drain is very concerning for me as a potential buyer. It’s my #1 gripe with the Rivian R1T. I hope Rivian engineers come up with a solution soon.

 

[Taycanfrank]

How bizarre! My Taycan has effectively zero vampire drain, I've left it for over a week several times with zero % battery loss.

 

[emoore]

I'm not sure it's a case of having a handle on it, as much as it's a deliberate philosophy choice difference. I don't think anyone should expect Rivian to achieve parity with the legacy makers on idle power use, because that's not what they are targeting. They want you to have the experience of instantaneous interaction and useability, vs. having to wait for the computers to boot up like a 1997 PC. They will try to eliminate uses that don't contribute to that experience, but I don't think you'll ever see the Rivian take 2 minutes to boot up after a deep sleep.

I agree. Rivian (and Tesla) has a different architecture than the traditional companies so the vampire drain will never be as low. If Rivian would redesign their entire electronics then it would be possible but I wouldn't count on it getting down to near 0.

 

[Taycanfrank]

To the above, what do you mean? My Taycan turns on when I walk up without any button presses, key in pocket, and everything is ready to go, ac running, music on, etc when I sit down. I can check status from the app live. No vampire drain. The EV6 I tried was the same.

Not sure why yall would think vampire drain relates to boot time. Plenty of EVs with instant boot times that don't experience vampire drain.

For reference I have a first year Taycan, which uses a completely new and unique Porsche software/infotainment system. It's been this way since day 1.

 

[NY_Rob]

How bizarre! My Taycan has effectively zero vampire drain, I've left it for over a week several times with zero % battery loss.

Same with my BMW i3... 0% loss after sitting for several days. My 2017 Bolt as well... no discernible day to day loss.

We need to hold Rivian's feet to the fire on this point! People saying "it"s fine" need to realize.. maybe "it's fine" with you... but the thought of wasting 2-3kWh of electricity per day is not fine with some of us especially seeing how Rivian is currently "worst in class" in vampire drain.

 

[mini2nut]

2-3kWh of electricity per day is substantial.

In my scenario with the truck sitting idle during the work week I would lose a minimum of 10kWh-15kWh of electricity per week. That equals 40kWh-60kWh per month.

At my .28 cent per kWh electric utility charge that comes out to $11.20 to $16.80 per month spent on vampire drain.

 

[mikehmb]

Good lord - that’s insane. I’m not going to cancel my reservation over it, but if there’s any reason I would, it’s this. They need to get their act together.

Neither my eGolf nor i3 have any measurable vampire drain.

 

[Ralph]

We don't have any way of knowing what they are working on, but perhaps they could start with the power steering pump being on all the time?

And maybe power down all camera if Gear Guard is off?

Actually, I'm sure they are working on these kinds of things and many others. I'm also sure I can't imagine the prioritization process that must take place within a given team.

And then there are those times that an issue involves several disciplines, perhaps inside and outside Rivian. And just when they think they can move forward, a key material, component, or human resource is no longer available. Loop.....

A great example of a "living" project plan.

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