Unlocking the car at home is maddening

[bigsky]

For people who are experiencing it working well, like us, I agree since I love having one less thing to carry around. However, for me, since I have to leave proximity (un)lock off at home, it would be a much better if Rivian had included some kind of button on or near the handle which would serve the same function as the other buttons (frunk, lift gate, etc .). If I had a way on the vehicle to tell the vehicle to (unl)ock as long as a valid phone or fob is present then I’d never need to touch the phone when the proximity features are off.

I think if would’ve made a lot of people happier if Rivian had put in manual vents and, using the money they saved, added a button or sensor on each door handle. Then everyone who has to leave proximity features off at home (many people with an attached garage) would probably be a lot more satisfied with the experience.

I am wondering about the OP siuation and his Wi-Fi service perhaps not reaching the vehicle If OP has not done so, perhaps instead of using a Wi-Fi extender, get a couple of mesh routers. May solve any and all dead spots.

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[SoCal Rob]

I am wondering about the OP siuation and his Wi-Fi service perhaps not reaching the vehicle If OP has not done so, perhaps instead of using a Wi-Fi extender, get a couple of mesh routers. May solve any and all dead spots.

Maybe. I thought that when there was no wi-fi connection and you were close to the vehicle it relied on Bluetooth. I recall the fob is BT only.

 

[tjrivian]

Just went out to my car in the driveway at home. Proximity locking is off at home as previously described because if I leave it on my car constantly unlocks itself.

Phone is in my pocket, and I:
1. Can open the frunk by pressing the button on the front of the vehicle
2. Can open the liftgate by pressing the button on the rear of the vehicle
3. Can not open the charge port by pressing its button
4. Can not open the car doors unless I pull my phone out of the pocket, open the app, and press the button in the app.

This is complete madness. And this is working PROPERLY, AS DESIGNED. The design is idiotic.

I'm tempted to enter the car via the rear liftgate and crawl through it to the driver seat to see if it will let me drive the car or not. Any guesses what will happen there?

 

[DeanB1452]

Just went out to my car in the driveway at home. Proximity locking is off at home as previously described because if I leave it on my car constantly unlocks itself.

Phone is in my pocket, and I:
1. Can open the frunk by pressing the button on the front of the vehicle
2. Can open the liftgate by pressing the button on the rear of the vehicle
3. Can not open the charge port by pressing its button
4. Can not open the car doors unless I pull my phone out of the pocket, open the app, and press the button in the app.

This is complete madness. And this is working PROPERLY, AS DESIGNED. The design is idiotic.

I'm tempted to enter the car via the rear liftgate and crawl through it to the driver seat to see if it will let me drive the car or not. Any guesses what will happen there?

This boggled my mind when I was able to open things while the truck was locked with proximity set to lock only while at home. What I found out was that it will unlock the lock closest to the phone. So I walk up to the frunk with my phone in my pocket and it will open the frunk. If I leave my phone by the frunk and try and open the gear tunnel, it won't open. If I move my phone over to the gear tunnel, it will open it. At first I thought it was a security issue that things were opening when the car was locked, but after playing around with it, it was pretty cool that it only allows the key holder (PaaK) to have access since they are right there. Leave your phone 10 feet away and you won't be able to access anything.

 

[tjrivian]

This boggled my mind when I was able to open things while the truck was locked with proximity set to lock only while at home. What I found out was that it will unlock the lock closest to the phone. So I walk up to the frunk with my phone in my pocket and it will open the frunk. If I leave my phone by the frunk and try and open the gear tunnel, it won't open. If I move my phone over to the gear tunnel, it will open it. At first I thought it was a security issue that things were opening when the car was locked, but after playing around with it, it was pretty cool that it only allows the key holder (PaaK) to have access since they are right there. Leave your phone 10 feet away and you won't be able to access anything.

But apparently not the charge port. It would be way too big of a security concern to allow someone who has access to the frunk and liftgate to also be able to open the charge port And of course it's a huge security concern to allow someone who can open the frunk/liftgage to be allowed to open the driver's door.

 

[SoCal Rob]

But apparently not the charge port. It would be way too big of a security concern to allow someone who has access to the frunk and liftgate to also be able to open the charge port And of course it's a huge security concern to allow someone who can open the frunk/liftgage to be allowed to open the driver's door.

The charge port is controlled from the outside by a capacitive sensor so it’s possible to trigger it by accident compared to the other items with physical buttons. I assume the engineers determined there were too many cases where this could present problems. My Ford had capacitive sensors on all 4 door handles for unlocking and locking so I had to leave the fob inside when rinsing, washing, or drying the car because every time a handle was hit by water from a hose, a wash mitt, or a damp towel it would trigger something. This is why Rivian’s car wash mode disables/ignores the charge port sensor. It may be that what you want was enabled for the charge port door originally, but every time pre-production testers walked past the charge port in the rain it opened.

Moving on to the doors, there are some issues to consider. It’s not just passively allowing you to open the driver’s door; it’s actively presenting the handle so that it’s obvious the vehicle is unlocked and ready to enter. There are people who don’t live in locations where being home means their Rivian is parked in a garage where only they can access it. Some folks park in carports, on their driveway, or on the street.

How do you propose that someone who can open the frunk/liftgate be allowed to open the driver’s door? As long as the frunk/liftgate is open should it unlock the driver’s door and present the handle? Other vehicles I’ve owned with buttons or sensors on the doors will re-lock the car as soon as you close the trunk (like closing our frunk/liftgate). Are you proposing the driver’s door handle remain presented even after you close the frunk/liftgate? If so, for how long? Do you expect it to only unlock the driver’s door and present the handle if the frunk/liftgate was opened and you approach the driver’s door? For how long after the frunk/liftgate was closed? I wouldn’t want to open my frunk/liftgate to do something, walk back into my house, and then have the driver’s door handle presented because my proximity inside the house triggered it (which is why I have proximity functions disabled as home to begin with).

If you can describe a way of accomplishing what you want in such a way that that it can be implemented by Rivian then suggest it via the app. It would have to a user-selectable option since people who park at less secure locations would not want the behavior changed.

 

[tjrivian]

How do you propose that someone who can open the frunk/liftgate be allowed to open the driver’s door? As long as the frunk/liftgate is open should it unlock the driver’s door and present the handle? Other vehicles I’ve owned with buttons or sensors on the doors will re-lock the car as soon as you close the trunk (like closing our frunk/liftgate). Are you proposing the driver’s door handle remain presented even after you close the frunk/liftgate? If so, for how long? Do you expect it to only unlock the driver’s door and present the handle if the frunk/liftgate was opened and you approach the driver’s door? For how long after the frunk/liftgate was closed? I wouldn’t want to open my frunk/liftgate to do something, walk back into my house, and then have the driver’s door handle presented because my proximity inside the house triggered it (which is why I have proximity functions disabled as home to begin with).

I'd propose that someone pressing the frunk/liftgate button with a phone that's close enough such that the frunk/liftgate open - treat that absolutely indenticaly to how you treat the person pushing the unlock button in the app. You have a lot of follow on questions, and I think the answer to all of them is "do the exact same thing you'd do when a person pushed the unlock button in the app". I'd much prefer pressing the frunk open button as a walk from my house to the car as a way to unlock the vehicle than trying to fumble with my phone and opening an app.

Alternatively, and I think this is a better proposal, I think Rivian should allow us to turn OFF proximity-unlocking at home for the PHONE, but keep ON proximity-unlocking at home for the FOB. That way you can still hands-free unlock your vehicle at home as long as you keep the fob in your pocket. It's very easy to store the fob inside the house at a location where it won't constantly trigger the proximity-unlock, much harder to do the same thing with my phone since it's typically in my pocket and goes wherever I go.

 

[Goose]

Why can't the door handles be manually operated? The presenter mode is all well and good, but is that a requirement? Why couldn't Rivian input a "Manually Open" mode where if you pull on the door handle, with a PAAK, Keycard, or Fob within range the vehicle unlocks. Such a mode would probably require they decrease the resistance on the door handle motors to make it easier to pry them open, but that shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I'd propose that someone pressing the frunk/liftgate button with a phone that's close enough such that the frunk/liftgate open - treat that absolutely indenticaly to how you treat the person pushing the unlock button in the app. You have a lot of follow on questions, and I think the answer to all of them is "do the exact same thing you'd do when a person pushed the unlock button in the app". I'd much prefer pressing the frunk open button as a walk from my house to the car as a way to unlock the vehicle than trying to fumble with my phone and opening an app.

Alternatively, and I think this is a better proposal, I think Rivian should allow us to turn OFF proximity-unlocking at home for the PHONE, but keep ON proximity-unlocking at home for the FOB. That way you can still hands-free unlock your vehicle at home as long as you keep the fob in your pocket. It's very easy to store the fob inside the house at a location where it won't constantly trigger the proximity-unlock, much harder to do the same thing with my phone since it's typically in my pocket and goes wherever I go.

The Rivian, unlike most other vehicles, doesn't just unlock normally but it unlocks and presents the door handle(s). Most people would consider that less secure, especially if they forget to manually re-lock and have all proximity functions off at home.

Even for most other vehicles, your first solution is not how any other manufacturer I've interacted with does it, and that's on cars with door handle buttons/sensors. The manufacturers seem to err on the side of security here. So, with other cars I've had with proximity fobs, if I opened the trunk the doors remained locked. At that point even a legitimate passenger using the unlock button/sensor would be denied entry until I unlocked by using the fob button or walking over to a door and unlocked it normally. I don't think Rivian will do this, even as a user-selectable option, because of liability or other concerns which seem to be driving other manufacturers, too.

Your second option is more likely to be implemented, assuming that it is technically possible and it is a high enough priority for Rivian. I don't know how many people have proximity functions off at home AND use a fob without always having it in their pocket, but I suspect that's not a large number of people.

I think Rivian would be better off spending their time perfecting the app and vehicle software to address the complaint from your very first post, with emphasis added:

So now to unlock the car at home I have to pull my phone out of the pocket, open the rivian app, and press the unlock button. Annoying, but if it works then fine I can live with it. But more than half the time it doesn't work, pressing the unlock button in the app will just give me an error.

After you asked this:

Is this something wrong with my particular vehicle, or is this a widespread problem? Is there any solution to not have to stand around for 2 minutes until the app finally allows me to press the button to unlock the door handles?

I offered troubleshooting help from my first response, "For those of you with PaaK problems, what kind of phone (brand, model, software version) do you have and have you been able to test with another phone (relative, friend, etc.) to rule out the phone as the problem?"

You've been dismissive at a bare minimum since then and seem to think that an error on the app when using the app probably isn't the phone, OS, or app/PaaK function, but rather the vehicle:

I tend to think it's not the PaaK that's the problem here, since the car is detecting that something is present enough that it will allow me to open the frunk/liftgate.

This strikes me as deeply flawed.

We've both occasionally slipped into proximity features on or off discussions, like when I asked about actively using the app (not via proximity) which gave you errors:

So, are you saying that the app doesn’t work reliably/gives errors at home ONLY or everywhere?

And you switched to proximity without answering the troubleshooting step I asked:

Proximity-unlock works pretty well everywhere else. Not 100%, but works enough for me not to have a big complaint about it. It's only at home where proximity-unlock needs to be disabled(because leaving it enabled would create constant unlocks due to being close inside the house) that these issues occur. I still think that it's completely stupid with proximiity-unlock disabled that the car will open the frunk in response to the frunk button press, but that frunk button press does not trigger door handle unlock. I've pressed a button, and you've authenticated me. Why would you not unlock the door handles at that point? Why make me dig my phone out and make me open an app and press a button in the app(that sometimes doesn't work)?

I doubt you've read this far, but if you have just let me know if you want any further replies where I'm trying to help since you asked for help. Thanks.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Why can't the door handles be manually operated? The presenter mode is all well and good, but is that a requirement? Why couldn't Rivian input a "Manually Open" mode where if you pull on the door handle, with a PAAK, Keycard, or Fob within range the vehicle unlocks. Such a mode would probably require they decrease the resistance on the door handle motors to make it easier to pry them open, but that shouldn't be a big deal.

From what I've read, the Gen 1 vehicles with mechanical door latches have no way of sensing that a human wants to open the door from the handle. The only way it knows to unlock the doors with proximity features off is for a person to actively use something outside the vehicle: bring an access card/wrist band near the driver's handle, tap unlock on the app, or press the unlock button on their fob. I also think the resistance is from a spring which can't be adjusted to the resistance to pulling can't be changed.

On the other hand, the Gen 2 vehicles DO have switches to detect when a handle has been pulled since the latches are electric with mechanical backup. I think Rivian could do what you're suggesting to Gen 2 vehicles, but there still may be a spring providing the resistance.

 

[tjrivian]

Not trying to be dismissive, I've just refined my complaint since my original post, which admittedly was a bit of an incoherent rant.

My complaint now boils down to - it's absurd that on a $90k vehicle I should ever have to take a phone/fob/keycard out of my pocket to gain access to the vehicle. And it not like that is something that happens only occasionally, I have to do it every single time I want to get into my vehicle parked in my driveway.

So the questions about the app not responding and such are (to me) not worth discussing anymore, since if I have to take my phone out of my pocket in the first place, then something has already gone horribly wrong.

Here's another suggestion for Rivian - when proximity-unlocking is disabled at home and person with phone presses trunk/liftgate and it opens, the door handles should be temporarily put into the same mode as they're in for carwash such that they can be manually depressed and pulled open. I think that would address the concerns you mentioned about the "presenting" nature of the handles.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Not trying to be dismissive, I've just refined my complaint since my original post, which admittedly was a bit of an incoherent rant.

My complaint now boils down to - it's absurd that on a $90k vehicle I should ever have to take a phone/fob/keycard out of my pocket to gain access to the vehicle. And it not like that is something that happens only occasionally, I have to do it every single time I want to get into my vehicle parked in my driveway.

So the questions about the app not responding and such are (to me) not worth discussing anymore, since if I have to take my phone out of my pocket in the first place, then something has already gone horribly wrong.

Here's another suggestion for Rivian - when proximity-unlocking is disabled at home and person with phone presses trunk/liftgate and it opens, the door handles should be temporarily put into the same mode as they're in for carwash such that they can be manually depressed and pulled open. I think that would address the concerns you mentioned about the "presenting" nature of the handles.

As I said in an earlier post, Rivian blew it by not including something for a driver to use on the outside of a Gen 1 R1 to indicate that they want it to unlock.

What you propose sounds reasonable to me.

Do you have a Gen 1 (through 2024) or Gen 2 (2025 through ?) R1? I’m asking because the Gen 2 vehicles have switches to indicate to the vehicle that the handle is being pulled. For those, Rivian could make a software update to allow an even better version of what you want. You could walk up to a locked vehicle with proximity unlock OFF, manually pull on the door handle to trigger the vehicle to verify a fob is present and, if so, unlock normally and unlatch the door you’re trying to open. I think that would be a major improvement.

Some people will balk at having to manually extend the handle, but it’s not so different from a Model 3 or Model Y at that point.

 

[Goose]

From what I've read, the Gen 1 vehicles with mechanical door latches have no way of sensing that a human wants to open the door from the handle. The only way it knows to unlock the doors with proximity features off is for a person to actively use something outside the vehicle: bring an access card/wrist band near the driver's handle, tap unlock on the app, or press the unlock button on their fob. I also think the resistance is from a spring which can't be adjusted to the resistance to pulling can't be changed.

On the other hand, the Gen 2 vehicles DO have switches to detect when a handle has been pulled since the latches are electric with mechanical backup. I think Rivian could do what you're suggesting to Gen 2 vehicles, but there still may be a spring providing the resistance.

The Gen 1 and Gen 2 vehicles have a motor mechanism that operates to "present" the door handles. Why couldn't that same signal be used in the reverse? If the motors are forced open (meaning someone pulled the door handle), the doors unlock. This mode should fix the OP's problem since someone yanking on the door handles would wake the truck up enough to look for a security device (PAAK, Card, Fob).

 

[tjrivian]

Do you have a Gen 1 (through 2024) or Gen 2 (2025 through ?) R1?

I have a Gen1. So yeah, I can't take advantage of those things you describe are present on Gen2 vehicles.

But at least Gen1 comes with a FOB, so I can use that. Digging out the fob from my pocket and pressing it's button seems less cumbersome than pulling out the phone and fumbling to unlock the phone, open the app, press the unlock button in the app. And I have Pixel phone, so I can't use "action button" like exists on iphone, and to my knowledge there's no way to setup a voice command on android to unlock the rivian. If there is a way, I'd like to be informed.

 

[SoCal Rob]

The Gen 1 and Gen 2 vehicles have a motor mechanism that operates to "present" the door handles. Why couldn't that same signal be used in the reverse? If the motors are forced open (meaning someone pulled the door handle), the doors unlock. This mode should fix the OP's problem since someone yanking on the door handles would wake the truck up enough to look for a security device (PAAK, Card, Fob).

I understand what you’re asking since traditional DC motors act as generators when moved externally. So moving the handle should generate a measurable amount of power.

I need a diagram of the mechanism in Gen 1 door handles but to me it feels like the motor which extends the door handles isn’t engaged when you manually pull the handle. It seems like the motor moves the internal handle stop to change the inward motion limit of the door handle. The last bit of movement, the distance it takes to unlatch the Gen 1 door, is purely mechanical.

Even if pulling the handle outward does engage a motor, we need an electrical engineer to weigh in on the likelihood of Rivian having the ability to read the motor movement and pass that along to other systems.

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