To All in the LA Fire-Affected Area: hope you are safe

[Marchin_MTB]

Watching the LA fires makes me think of all the friends and colleagues we have in the area as well as any in the Rivian community that are affected by this disaster. It also reminds me of the Colorado fires that occurred here (Marshall Fire, in and around Louisville and Superior) a couple years ago in the winter during a time of extreme winds and drought.

To any members dealing with this: hope you and your families are safe. We are thinking of you.

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[Rivian Owner]

We know at least 6 families who lost their houses in the fires. My heart goes out to all the people who have been impacted by the fires.

LA already had a housing crisis, these fires will displace thousands of households. Unfortunately this disaster will probably drive more families onto the street, and drive up rental prices. Fire insurance will be next to impossible to get if you can afford it. I hope I am wrong and somehow they recover quickly.

 

[Marchin_MTB]

Dealing with insurance after a total loss is a marathon spanning many, many months. Be prepared mentally for this added burden. Some insurers are easier to work with than others. Communities can set up forums or neighborhood slack channels to share helpful tips and experiences.

 

[NY_Rob]

If my home and even more importantly my whole neighborhood burned to the ground due to not getting any rain for 8 months (that's what they have been reporting on the news here in NY).. I'd seriously consider taking that insurance check and moving elsewhere. Listening to area officials, it seems like LA has no real plan for preventing fires like this going forward, and the way the long term climate trends are heading, they're in for a lot more of the same.

 

[COdogman]

Some places are just that dry. The Marshall fire in CO happened on 12.30.21 and started as a small grass fire at the base of the foothills. In a matter of a few hours it had crossed 4 miles of grassland because of 80-100 mph winds. On the north side It eventually stopped about a block from the house I grew up in in Louisville.
https://research.noaa.gov/looking-back-at-colorados-marshall-fire/

The same thing is happening in LA, although the damage is already much much worse. Between the insurance battles and regulations they will face in rebuilding, like required fire suppression in your home, I expect many people will choose not to rebuild. That is what happened in Superior, Louisville - there are still empty lots from 4 years ago.

 

[Rivian Owner]

If the city is wise they will mandate the building codes in the IBC related to wildland urban interfaces for any new construction. The code includes metrics for evaluating risk and measures/requirements for design and building materials that make a building resistant to catching fire based on the risk assessment, so it isn't a one size fits all.

I wouldn't be surprised if the only way the state gets insurers to remain in the market is to implement mandatory adherence to these codes. While some will whine about the added cost or complexity, these standards are well established and proven to reduce the risk of a fire like what we are witnessing, and may save the majority of the neighborhoods. Another consideration for anyone wanting to complain about the cost is the fact that the fire fighters pick their fight when it comes to what to save in a disaster like this. Your house is more likely to be saved if it looks like it can be saved. So things like a non-combustible roof, non-combustible decks, no landscaping near the house, non-flammable siding, no soffit vents, and other measures go a long way to making a house less combustible.

Fire sprinklers can be helpful, until the water no longer flows. The hydrants ran dry in a lot of areas in these fires, your fire sprinklers will do the same thing. The best way to build a house is to design it so it won't burn not to expect to put out a fire. Fire sprinklers have their place, but can't be the only solution.

The winds from the storm were stronger than what has been seen in the past, which just demonstrates the problem is getting worse. I remember lots of LA fires, but nothing like this.

 

[COdogman]

If the city is wise they will mandate the building codes in the IBC related to wildland urban interfaces for any new construction. The code includes metrics for evaluating risk and measures/requirements for design and building materials that make a building resistant to catching fire based on the risk assessment, so it isn't a one size fits all.

I wouldn't be surprised if the only way the state gets insurers to remain in the market is to implement mandatory adherence to these codes. While some will whine about the added cost or complexity, these standards are well established and proven to reduce the risk of a fire like what we are witnessing, and may save the majority of the neighborhoods. Another consideration for anyone wanting to complain about the cost is the fact that the fire fighters pick their fight when it comes to what to save in a disaster like this. Your house is more likely to be saved if it looks like it can be saved. So things like a non-combustible roof, non-combustible decks, no landscaping near the house, non-flammable siding, no soffit vents, and other measures go a long way to making a house less combustible.

Fire sprinklers can be helpful, until the water no longer flows. The hydrants ran dry in a lot of areas in these fires, your fire sprinklers will do the same thing. The best way to build a house is to design it so it won't burn not to expect to put out a fire. Fire sprinklers have their place, but can't be the only solution.

The winds from the storm were stronger than what has been seen in the past, which just demonstrates the problem is getting worse. I remember lots of LA fires, but nothing like this.

All good points.

What I saw happen to people in CO is their insurance coverage was not enough to cover the increased costs to rebuild using the new standards. Part of that was their fault, but between the banks, insurers, and county, a bunch of people just tapped out and walked away... And these are not low income areas - these were expensive homes. The median home price in Boulder County is $1 million.

 

[Rivian Owner]

All good points.

What I saw happen to people in CO is their insurance coverage was not enough to cover the increased costs to rebuild using the new standards. Part of that was their fault, but between the banks, insurers, and county, a bunch of people just tapped out and walked away... And these are not low income areas - these were expensive homes. The median home price in Boulder County is $1 million.

Yeah I have a feeling the insurance companies are going to do like they did to the hurricane victims in Fl, or many other disasters; they will claim bankruptcy while paying their execs millions. I do agree though, people tend to underinsure and then get caught without enough money to rebuild their lives. I'm guessing that most people didn't update their coverage with consideration for the steep increases we've seen in building materials over the last couple of years. With demand high, prices for materials and labor in the LA area are going to skyrocket.

 

[NY_Rob]

On the news they also mentioned banks burned to the ground?

 

[mkg3]

Not sure if anyone or anything could have prevented what has happened.

No amounts of building codes or policies would have prevented 80~100mph sustained winds. Many of the homes burned are nowhere near hill side or backing up to brush filled open lands. Most are in the middle of the city in tracks. it's similar to any suburban community going up in flames. It just was beyond anyone's realm of possibility.

Pacific Palisades is an old community with many homes build in 30s~50s. While many have been remodeled inside and additions, much of the original structure remains.

The winds carried embers for miles and many fires were transitioned onto the new buildings by the way of embers entering the roof through the eave vents.

There's lots of finger pointing starting to happen and press conferences that do nothing other than optics of doing something without any real solutions to help people in need, currently.

The national news distorts the facts and makes it sounds like the entire LA is burning - that's not true. Not trivializing the event and the disaster; rather, need to put in the context that a communities within LA were hit simultaneously hard by fire due to Santa Ana wind event.

No reporting of the cause of the fires so we're all waiting to find out more about that aspects.

 

[Marchin_MTB]

at this time, the folks affected just need our support and, if you’re in a position to do so, our help.

 

[sfvR1S]

If my home and even more importantly my whole neighborhood burned to the ground due to not getting any rain for 8 months (that's what they have been reporting on the news here in NY).. I'd seriously consider taking that insurance check and moving elsewhere. Listening to area officials, it seems like LA has no real plan for preventing fires like this going forward, and the way the long term climate trends are heading, they're in for a lot more of the same.

No different than people who live in tornado, hurricane, flood, etc areas. They don't seem to move either so it's not just an L.A. thing.

 

[NY_Rob]

No different than people who live in tornado, hurricane, flood, etc areas. They don't seem to move either so it's not just an L.A. thing.

Sometimes they do move though.. saw that in the Keys after the last hurricane wiped out homes, roads, infrastructure. Many "had enough" and are leaving for good.

 

[Rivian Owner]

Not sure if anyone or anything could have prevented what has happened.

No amounts of building codes or policies would have prevented 80~100mph sustained winds. Many of the homes burned are nowhere near hill side or backing up to brush filled open lands. Most are in the middle of the city in tracks. it's similar to any suburban community going up in flames. It just was beyond anyone's realm of possibility.

Pacific Palisades is an old community with many homes build in 30s~50s. While many have been remodeled inside and additions, much of the original structure remains.

The winds carried embers for miles and many fires were transitioned onto the new buildings by the way of embers entering the roof through the eave vents.

There's lots of finger pointing starting to happen and press conferences that do nothing other than optics of doing something without any real solutions to help people in need, currently.

The national news distorts the facts and makes it sounds like the entire LA is burning - that's not true. Not trivializing the event and the disaster; rather, need to put in the context that a communities within LA were hit simultaneously hard by fire due to Santa Ana wind event.

No reporting of the cause of the fires so we're all waiting to find out more about that aspects.

Actually building a home to be fire resistant would have gone a long way toward saving buildings. The problem with Pacific Palisades and Altadena is the age of the neighborhoods. This has nothing to do with perceived biases regarding who's to blame, and everything to do with homes that were never designed for a drought stricken environment that regularly experiences high winds and fire.

I'm not overly familiar with California's current building codes, but in reading a recent article in Fine Homebuilding, they indicate that: "California has already enacted the International Wildland-Urban Interface (WUI) Code". They go on to say: "
Building codes for WUI zones are aimed at preventing three ways houses can ignite during a wildfire—fires caused by sparks from burning embers pushed ahead of the flames by wind, those caused by radiant heat from nearby buildings or objects that have caught fire, and those caused by direct contact with flames.

David Shew, staff chief for planning and risk analysis at Cal Fire, considers embers to be the most dangerous, accounting for 70% to 90% of the houses lost to wildfires. Smoldering firebrands can blow up to a mile ahead of advancing flames, and they don’t need much of a toehold to start a fire. Any nook, crevice, or overlooked recess in the skin of a building can harbor an ember. With that in mind, many of the provisions of the building codes are aimed at preventing the intrusion of burning embers into or under structures where they can ignite combustible material."

They go on to point out that in some of the past fires, and I'm sure it is true with these fires, areas burned that weren't considered high risk. To me that indicates that they need to redraw their maps to include greater areas for risk mitigation. Sadly, money gets involved and memories are short, so we will see what happens.

So I beg to differ, building codes can make a difference.

 

[POLAR1S]

Just got evac order but not leaving. I think a lot of people do panic, but if you're keeping track of how things are really going its ok, unless it was Tuesday, anything can happen. People are already packed on my street and ready to leave and the Archer fire is pretty much already done.
Small fire, once i saw the chopper and the army of firemen and the BULLDOZER mowing down everything, I felt good. Thank you LAFD!!!

However, Rivian is charged and ready to go over anything lol.

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