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Thoughts on removal of Off Road Upgrade

Eeyore

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I'd sure like to know who/where/how all these "customers" that Rivian listened to were actually found and communicated with.... :movember:
How many of the thousands of people with pre-orders are *active* members here?

*edited* to add "active"
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SoCal Rob

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I was dead serious.

If you are at the point where you cannot trust anything Rivian tells you (even if what they are saying is logical and is the simplest explanation), I don't know how you could possibly go through with an order. I could never commit to such a large purchase from a company that I held in such low esteem.
Yeah, I don’t expect people or companies to relay all facts without any sort of “spin” when they have the opportunity. Objectively, Rivian is behaving pretty well in terms of honesty in today’s automotive world. Think of Dieselgate, the GM ignition switch fiasco, and a bunch of manufacturers overstating ICE fuel economy or EV range.

If people think CS talking about deliveries starting in June right up until officially changed to July is a big fat lie then I suspect that either those people haven’t worked at a for-profit company or they aren’t even aware of how their employer tends to keep information tightly controlled. I work in IT and if I had a dollar for every time I’ve been told about a coming change which is strictly confidential until officially announced, I could probably buy every R1S piece of gear currently shown on the site.

I am really, REALLY excited to get our Rivian, but life is pretty f’ing good if a new car delivery delay is the biggest concern I have in my life. So I’ll wait for posts from folks who receive theirs, wait for a test drive, wait for an electronic version of the user manual, and wait for what I expect to be a near-perfect vehicle for us and our needs. I have plenty of other things in my life to keep me busy until then.
 

kanundrum

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discsinthesky

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My question is this; On May 25 CS reps were being instructed (or went rouge I guess) to state that deliveries would begin in June 2021 on May 27 Rivian announces a delay. Does anyone feel that Rivian did not have knowledge that they would not be fulfilling deliveries in June proir to preorder launch of the Ford Lightning and Hyundai Ioniq 5?
It's not the delay, I want them to take the time they need to get it right, Rivian owes me nothing the legal preorder agreement says as much. Rivians CS decieved me into not preordering a Lightning or Ioniq 5 ASAP (I'm a fool and should have known better). I preordered both the Ioniq and Lightening last night, I am not canceling my Rivian preorder because #1 it best suits my use case #2 I still may get it first, #3 I am hedging against delays or bad final specs. of all 3. Forget the delay it's the deception.
Was the preorder timeline of these other vehicles public knowledge? It seems like the most prudent hedging strategy has always been to sign up for a pre-order if there’s even a slight chance of you going through with it - most of these pre-orders have such low downsides.
That’s what I did with the Lightning, even though the R1T is by far my first choice.
 

timesinks

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My question is this; On May 25 CS reps were being instructed (or went rouge I guess) to state that deliveries would begin in June 2021 on May 27 Rivian announces a delay. Does anyone feel that Rivian did not have knowledge that they would not be fulfilling deliveries in June proir to preorder launch of the Ford Lightning and Hyundai Ioniq 5?
It's not the delay, I want them to take the time they need to get it right, Rivian owes me nothing the legal preorder agreement says as much. Rivians CS decieved me into not preordering a Lightning or Ioniq 5 ASAP (I'm a fool and should have known better). I preordered both the Ioniq and Lightening last night, I am not canceling my Rivian preorder because #1 it best suits my use case #2 I still may get it first, #3 I am hedging against delays or bad final specs. of all 3. Forget the delay it's the deception.
No company is going to leak news of a delay through 1-1 conversations with CS reps. The reps are going to toe the company line until the company announces a new line.

Rivian was not going to announce a vague delay (unless they wanted the pitchforks coming at them screaming "When?!"). So they gathered as much information as they could, solidified their plan as much as possible, strategized about exactly how to frame the messaging, and released the news in a deliberate manner. No good would have come from doing it any other way. Announce today that in 30-60 days deliveries will begin? That's such a short timeline as to be believe they have most of their ducks in a row and are just sorting the last few bits. But announce a month or two ago that deliveries begin in 90-120 days and there's too much uncertainty in the remaining timeline (and a media narrative takes off that they'll probably be delaying again).
 

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I was dead serious.

If you are at the point where you cannot trust anything Rivian tells you (even if what they are saying is logical and is the simplest explanation), I don't know how you could possibly go through with an order. I could never commit to such a large purchase from a company that I held in such low esteem.
That’s your opinion and it’s fine that you have it. But the fact that you have it, and it’s different than the opinion of many other people on here, doesn’t somehow entitle you to tell us how we should think, feel or what actions we should take based on those thoughts and feelings. But obviously you do feel like it’s your job to tell us what we should or should not do and how we should feel. ?‍♂

Carry on.
 

SANZC02

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Yeah, I don’t expect people or companies to relay all facts without any sort of “spin” when they have the opportunity. Objectively, Rivian is behaving pretty well in terms of honesty in today’s automotive world. Think of Dieselgate, the GM ignition switch fiasco, and a bunch of manufacturers overstating ICE fuel economy or EV range.

If people think CS talking about deliveries starting in June right up until officially changed to July is a big fat lie then I suspect that either those people haven’t worked at a for-profit company or they aren’t even aware of how their employer tends to keep information tightly controlled. I work in IT and if I had a dollar for every time I’ve been told about a coming change which is strictly confidential until officially announced, I could probably buy every R1S piece of gear currently shown on the site.

I am really, REALLY excited to get our Rivian, but life is pretty f’ing good if a new car delivery delay is the biggest concern I have in my life. So I’ll wait for posts from folks who receive theirs, wait for a test drive, wait for an electronic version of the user manual, and wait for what I expect to be a near-perfect vehicle for us and our needs. I have plenty of other things in my life to keep me busy until then.
I'm not even sure they were being deceptive.

There were a number of times I've been involved in a project where regardless of the heroic steps being taken, at the very last minute we push the go live out a few weeks. Not because we were hiding anything but because we thought we may still make it.

People seem to forget the June month was set almost a year ago at the very beginning of Covid (I know people don't want to hear it but it was and still is a huge impact on global manufacturing and supply chains) so if they make deliveries in July they did a pretty impressive job navigating those waters.

I'm in the process of having solar installed at my house, this year the lead times are nearly double what they used to be. The permit processes are taking much longer. product availability is an issue, people to do the installs. Practically every part of the project is seeing much longer times than if I did it in 2019 pre-Covid.
 

Rhidan

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I'd sure like to know who/where/how all these "customers" that Rivian listened to were actually found and communicated with.... :movember:
Considering that they are starting the summer tour in off-roading hots spots--like NYC, LA, Chicago, and Detroit--maybe there are more than a few customers who don't want the off-road package.
 

Gshenderson

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My question is this; On May 25 CS reps were being instructed (or went rouge I guess) to state that deliveries would begin in June 2021 on May 27 Rivian announces a delay. Does anyone feel that Rivian did not have knowledge that they would not be fulfilling deliveries in June proir to preorder launch of the Ford Lightning and Hyundai Ioniq 5?
It's not the delay, I want them to take the time they need to get it right, Rivian owes me nothing the legal preorder agreement says as much. Rivians CS decieved me into not preordering a Lightning or Ioniq 5 ASAP (I'm a fool and should have known better). I preordered both the Ioniq and Lightening last night, I am not canceling my Rivian preorder because #1 it best suits my use case #2 I still may get it first, #3 I am hedging against delays or bad final specs. of all 3. Forget the delay it's the deception.
Well said. I placed an F-150 preorder during the launch event. Mostly as a hedge. A few months ago, the need to hedge would not have crossed my mind. Due to Rivian’s failure to provide adequate communications over the last several months, my confidence in them has been negatively impacted. Not enough to jump ship yet, but enough to make me suspicious and begin to look at other options more seriously. I’m still hopeful they deliver an awesome truck, and if so I will buy it.
 

SoCal Rob

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I'm not even sure they were being deceptive.

There were a number of times I've been involved in a project where regardless of the heroic steps being taken, at the very last minute we push the go live out a few weeks. Not because we were hiding anything but because we thought we may still make it.

People seem to forget the June month was set almost a year ago at the very beginning of Covid (I know people don't want to hear it but it was and still is a huge impact on global manufacturing and supply chains) so if they make deliveries in July they did a pretty impressive job navigating those waters.

I'm in the process of having solar installed at my house, this year the lead times are nearly double what they used to be. The permit processes are taking much longer. product availability is an issue, people to do the installs. Practically every part of the project is seeing much longer times than if I did it in 2019 pre-Covid.
I completely agree. Also, CS reps may not even have known about the timeline change until very shortly before we did.

We are living in a very unusual time for materials availability and I don’t envy Rivian launching 3 vehicles in the middle of it.
 

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I'd sure love more information on a much more regular basis, but all I can control is my reaction. A while back, this process started to get to me and a couple of days away from the Forums helped clear my head. Unfortunately, my angst turned towards my golf game, which also is need of an off-road package.

I'm not sure when I might see my R1T, but I want it to be free of all of the post-production drama Tesla has became notable for. Greater transparency would be welcome, but we can't make that happen. I trust I'll end up happy with the final product. That said, I sure enjoy all of the conversations we continue to have here, even when it gets a bit contentious. At least communication in the Forum is clear and robust.

To come back to the question of the underbody package and other pricing changes, I wonder if it could possibly be related to the prospect of losing the tax credit for EVs above $80,000. I'm not certain if all options will be included as part of the MSRP, or whether they may find a way around that. I noticed that my configuration was initially exactly $80,000, with the Forest Edge interior and the Camp Kitchen.

I have a sense that many people may be trying to stick just below that $80,000 price for fear of the loss of the tax credit. If anyone thinks Rivian is not doing well in their communications, try reading the legislation around the proposed tax changes and tell me what it really means. If crossing that $80,000 threshold this year means trouble, I'm glad we now have options to bring that purchase price down. To end up with an MSRP below $80k, I'll end up deleting the options that can be added later.

The underbody protection is not one of those, and of course, the interior is not. I wish Rivian would allow a window of maybe 60 days after purchase to obtain accessories at the same pricing. That would allow the same pre-purchase pricing and package discounts for things like the Camp Kitchen (with the free cookware package), as well as the racks being included with the tent without ballooning the intial purchase price. While it wouldn't allow those items to be rolled into the financing, it'd be worth it if it protected the tax credit.
 

DucRider

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That’s your opinion and it’s fine that you have it. But the fact that you have it, and it’s different than the opinion of many other people on here, doesn’t somehow entitle you to tell us how we should think, feel or what actions we should take based on those thoughts and feelings. But obviously you do feel like it’s your job to tell us what we should or should not do and how we should feel. ?‍♂

Carry on.
I never told you what you should or shouldn't do (or feel). Was just expressing my lack of understanding on how anyone could spend $70K+ with a company that they felt was taking a methodical and deliberate approach to lie to and deceive customers.

If I thought for one minute that Rivian was engaging in the deliberate deception that a few of the vocal minority are espousing, my order would be cancelled in a heartbeat. Yes, conspiracy theories are fun to contemplate, but usually require a stretching of the truth and modeling "fact" to fit that theory.

Here's a new one: "Launch Green does not and will not exist. It was only put out there to keep too many people from ordering Rivian Blue and being first in line for delivery". Makes about as much sense as a lot of the other speculation being tossed around.

Insecurities, a sense of entitlement and hurt feelings are not something that a 3rd party can create or control. Those are owned only by the individual experiencing them. The choices they make give others the power to illicit those emotional responses.

It baffles me that anyone that thinks they are getting screwed will scream "Ow, Ow it hurts! Stop it!" instead of just leaving when nobody is holding them there.
 

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Depending on the range hit from the off road package I may drop it. 15 additional miles would be more beneficial for me than the hooks and armor if it's 2-5 miles ill probably keep it. Same for wheel configuration.
 

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I can't prove it, but Rivian saying the 'Off-Road pkg.' became optional after "talking to potential customers about their adventures" and determining it was unnecessary or rarely called-for in the Launch Edition is a bunch of hooey. The EPA rating for the L.E. fell below 300 and this is their adhoc solution done to get a range value with a 3 at the front.

Mark my words, once the dust clears and they come clean with all the EPA ratings for various configurations/options it will show that the original L.E. would have earned that 280 rating that popped up recently. Eliminating the bash plate may just get them the 20'ish miles they need for the L.E. to satisfy years of posturing on 300 miles.
“I can’t prove it, but...” is a helluva way to start a rant. There’s usually something great coming after that caveat.

So Rivian discovered this, and in an effort to keep this conspiracy secret, then decided to bury that random number in the website coding? That’s some next level stuff.
 

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And out of those 214 members, how many have posted or somehow communicated with rivian that they don't plan on taking their vehicle off road? The answer is that we really don't know.

For me, I will be happy to spend $2000 on other accessories because despite the fact that I have the 20" wheels configured, I don't plan on much if any off road driving. I just like the look of the 20" wheels the best. I'd rather have AS tires than AT tires, but that's not an option.
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