Sponsored

Thoughts on removal of Off Road Upgrade

Ty012

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ty
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
53
Reaction score
99
Location
Denver
Vehicles
Tesla, Audi
What happened to the winch?
My guess is that it is still being tested and will be an option on later models. Hopefully there will be a way to add later as well ?
Sponsored

 

SoCal Rob

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
2,085
Reaction score
4,360
Location
Southern California
Vehicles
Rivian R1S & VW ID.4
Occupation
Information Technology
Clubs
 
If it is a range thing and not supply or exactly what they told us is they heard from many who did not want or need the option.

Seems like another 1-200 lbs added to the bottom essentially smoothing it out would not be a huge impact to range. If it is lost range could be the air disruption around the tow hooks disrupting airflow for aero dynamics may be impacting range.

Personally, unless there is a lot more to the off-road package than they have listed, not sure how it could be a big impact to the range.
I agree that it shouldn’t have a big impact on range. However, even with regenerative braking, adding dead weight will reduce range on a level road or exact round trip. There’s no escaping the physics: on a level trip with all else the same: you’ll expend more energy when accelerating more mass and you’ll only recover a portion of that (never 100%) via regen when braking.

If the underside was already smooth to minimize drag then I doubt the off-road shield will improve that much, if at all.

While I expect that a possible reduction in range will be minimal, any reduction will matter to some buyers. Between the price reduction and mitigating any potential range reduction this makes a lot of business sense to me.

For customers who want the added protection, it should be worth the money and minor reduction in range, if any. I’m getting it no matter what.
 

SANZC02

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Threads
29
Messages
5,258
Reaction score
8,858
Location
California
Vehicles
Tesla Model S, LE - R1S
Occupation
Retired
I agree that it shouldn’t have a big impact on range. However, even with regenerative braking, adding dead weight will reduce range on a level road or exact round trip. There’s no escaping the physics: on a level trip with all else the same: you’ll expend more energy when accelerating more mass and you’ll only recover a portion of that (never 100%) via regen when braking.

If the underside was already smooth to minimize drag then I doubt the off-road shield will improve that much, if at all.

While I expect that a possible reduction in range will be minimal, any reduction will matter to some buyers. Between the price reduction and mitigating any potential range reduction this makes a lot of business sense to me.

For customers who want the added protection, it should be worth the money and minor reduction in range, if any. I’m getting it no matter what.
If 200 lbs makes that much difference, don’t tell my wife, she’ll take the R1S and make me stay home….:cool:
 

eggpaul

Well-Known Member
First Name
Paul
Joined
May 4, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
626
Reaction score
1,003
Location
Sierra Madre, CA
Vehicles
2017 Chevy Volt, 2021 Acura TLX
Occupation
Business Owner
I set my wheels to the 20 inch all terrain back in November. Now I'm wondering if I should just go with the 21 inch road tires. I don't go off-roading , but I love the look of the 20 inch wheels. But I'm wondering how much it will lower the range at this point.

You think 20 miles less?
 

Ty012

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ty
Joined
Apr 14, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
53
Reaction score
99
Location
Denver
Vehicles
Tesla, Audi
I set my wheels to the 20 inch all terrain back in November. Now I'm wondering if I should just go with the 21 inch road tires. I don't go off-roading , but I love the look of the 20 inch wheels. But I'm wondering how much it will lower the range at this point.

You think 20 miles less?
The 20s are going to give you more options for tires - all season, winter, etc. Only 1 tire option for the 21s for now…maybe I should change mine to 20s ? I need do some some research to see how much a set of 20inch aftermarket wheels and tires plus spare would be. I’d like to keep the 21s for range and less road noise with the option to put on 20s If going off roading or for driving in snow if 21s not up to the task.
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

BigE

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
40
Messages
770
Reaction score
1,327
Location
North Carolina
Vehicles
Rivian R1T, Honda S2000
I agree that it shouldn’t have a big impact on range. However, even with regenerative braking, adding dead weight will reduce range on a level road or exact round trip. There’s no escaping the physics: on a level trip with all else the same: you’ll expend more energy when accelerating more mass and you’ll only recover a portion of that (never 100%) via regen when braking.

If the underside was already smooth to minimize drag then I doubt the off-road shield will improve that much, if at all.

While I expect that a possible reduction in range will be minimal, any reduction will matter to some buyers. Between the price reduction and mitigating any potential range reduction, this makes a lot of business sense to me.

For customers who want the added protection, it should be worth the money and a minor reduction in range, if any. I’m getting it no matter what.
I'm leaning towards adding the Off-Road for the safety aspect. I've asked Rivian but didn't get as direct an answer as I wanted so I'm asking for more data at some point. But if you recall in 2013 Tesla had I think 2 cars that were involved in crashed and the battery pack was punctured and started on fire. In 2014 Tesla retrofitted Model S's with a Titanium battery shield for added protection. Tesla stated the following: "The protective qualities of the underbody shields are substantial, but their effect on the overall structure of the vehicle is minimal. In total, the shields only have a 0.1 percent impact on range and don’t affect ride or handling. Wind tunnel testing shows no discernible change in drag or lift on the car."
 

Swilly

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
295
Reaction score
508
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2001 Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
A Little Bit of Everything
Clubs
 
The 20s are going to give you more options for tires - all season, winter, etc. Only 1 tire option for the 21s for now…maybe I should change mine to 20s ? I need do some some research to see how much a set of 20inch aftermarket wheels and tires plus spare would be. I’d like to keep the 21s for range and less road noise with the option to put on 20s If going off roading or for driving in snow if 21s not up to the task.
I will start by saying I am not an LE holder so free wheel upgrade was not an option. I originally configured 20s on the R1S, also thinking about future tire options, but switched to the 21s. My thinking is the majority of my driving will be asphalt(21s will have better range), and for the $1800 upgrade cost I can find aftermarket rims and tires and choose my wheel size (probably would not choose 20s for an AT set), and I get the 21s. Upgrading on the non-LE means you are really paying $3000+, for AT tires, considering you don’t get the free 21s as well) Easily can find a set of five wheels and tires for that.
 

Swilly

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Feb 2, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
295
Reaction score
508
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2001 Toyota Landcruiser
Occupation
A Little Bit of Everything
Clubs
 
I agree that it shouldn’t have a big impact on range. However, even with regenerative braking, adding dead weight will reduce range on a level road or exact round trip. There’s no escaping the physics: on a level trip with all else the same: you’ll expend more energy when accelerating more mass and you’ll only recover a portion of that (never 100%) via regen when braking.

If the underside was already smooth to minimize drag then I doubt the off-road shield will improve that much, if at all.

While I expect that a possible reduction in range will be minimal, any reduction will matter to some buyers. Between the price reduction and mitigating any potential range reduction this makes a lot of business sense to me.

For customers who want the added protection, it should be worth the money and minor reduction in range, if any. I’m getting it no matter what.
I agree the range hit should be minimal. So why make it optional this late?

I admittedly know nothing about manufacturing vehicles, but what if the addition of the off road package increases build time to such a degree that offering the LE without it, could result in them getting significantly more vehicles out the door? By making it optional, they have the a way to speed up certain LE builds, to get as many out as possible this summer. Maybe they can also eek out a few extra miles of range, but that might not be the driving force.
 

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Threads
55
Messages
2,725
Reaction score
5,647
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps, 2500HD Duramax, R1S Preorder (Dec 2018)
Or maybe they listened to customers, and realized that many didn't want or need it.

I will have it on mine...
 

Sean

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sean
Joined
Dec 28, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
191
Reaction score
517
Location
Georgia
Vehicles
R1T!
Clubs
 
Or, just playing Rivian advocate here... there's a lot of people that are worried about the price and don't need it.

I'm curious about the reasons too but also trying to take what they've actually said with some amount of truth.

The range comment in their projected range give that theory some legitimacy but most of us will get the info we need before we have to pull the trigger.
 

Sponsored

LoneStar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Threads
78
Messages
1,572
Reaction score
3,496
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
'23 R1S Launch Ed.
Occupation
engineer
Clubs
 
I'd sure like to know who/where/how all these "customers" that Rivian listened to were actually found and communicated with.... :movember:
 

SoCal Rob

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
2,085
Reaction score
4,360
Location
Southern California
Vehicles
Rivian R1S & VW ID.4
Occupation
Information Technology
Clubs
 
I agree the range hit should be minimal. So why make it optional this late?

I admittedly know nothing about manufacturing vehicles, but what if the addition of the off road package increases build time to such a degree that offering the LE without it, could result in them getting significantly more vehicles out the door? By making it optional, they have the a way to speed up certain LE builds, to get as many out as possible this summer. Maybe they can also eek out a few extra miles of range, but that might not be the driving force.
It could be a materials cost and availability issue, for sure. If they don’t have, or a supplier doesn’t have, materials to make the underbody shields then omitting them on most builds would definitely speed up production.

I never said that the underbody shielding would absolutely reduce the reported EPA range figures, just that adding dead weight will reduce range. I have no idea if that range reduction will be enough to impact the official range. While any theoretical range hit should be minimal, one possibility is that a small difference in reality makes a big difference in perceptions. If the range without the off road protection is 301 miles, as an example, and the reduction with the off-road package is 0.5% then I assume Rivian would have to report 299 miles of range. While a reported 2 mile reduction is trivial in my mind, changing the first digit from a 3 to a 2 is a very big deal when it comes to perceptions and marketing. This is all speculation, of course. It could be that the range is 305 without and 304 with. Without hard data, these discussions are just playing out scenarios as a way to pass the time. We will know if this is a factor or not when the official numbers are released.

I think that the price reduction of $2,000 is definitely a factor. For people who don’t need the extra protection, a last-minute price reduction should make them happy and it should mitigate some of the annoyance for those who weren’t happy about the one month delay of the start of deliveries. With the costs of many raw materials going up, reducing the price of the vehicle is a way of over-delivering on value.
 

PastyPilgrim

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 9, 2021
Threads
12
Messages
406
Reaction score
934
Location
New England
Vehicles
R1T
I agree with other posters that the hooks should be standard. IMO the ability to tow charge seems somewhat tightly ingrained in the image/brand of the R1T. Plus, it doesn't seem like they can be added later unlike most other upgrades, and they can't be all that expensive to Rivian.

I think the shield should just be a standalone add-on for 1250-1500. Or, they could continue offering an off-road package, but have the package include the winch and/or the emergency off-road kit instead of the hooks. There's other things they could involve in the package too like the all-terrain tires, the field kit, the air compressor accessories, etc.
 

STLBlues76

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tommy
Joined
May 7, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
50
Reaction score
132
Location
USA
Vehicles
Toyota Sienna, Mazda CX-9
Occupation
Attorney
I'd sure like to know who/where/how all these "customers" that Rivian listened to were actually found and communicated with.... :movember:
I’m going to go with phone or email, or a combination thereof
 

LoneStar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Threads
78
Messages
1,572
Reaction score
3,496
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
'23 R1S Launch Ed.
Occupation
engineer
Clubs
 
I’m going to go with phone or email, or a combination thereof
Funny.... and none on this forum apparently. And no chatter in the bloggosphere about it ahead of time. I call B.S. on the whole claim by Rivian. It's a PR made-up story.
Sponsored

 
 




Top