The Norwegian experience - get the MAX PACK !

Erik

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Norway has, as you probably saw in the 2021 Superbowl ad with Will Ferrell, the highest density of EV in the world. Today app. 20 % of the car fleet. Mainly due to the taxacion policy, EVs are tax free, making them app. 30-40 % cheaper than a similar model fossil fuel car. Last month almost 70 % of all new sold cars were fully electric or chargeable hybrids. This fall, the Tesla Y is the overall most sold car model, last year was The Audi e-tron, the year before, the Tesla 3. Model S also sold in large numbers the last 5 years. When it comes to charging stations, we have today 1.328 charging stations for a population of 5,5 millions. (https://ladekart.elbil.no/more) The number of EVs are growing faster than the number of public chargers being erected. Today we have 19 EVs per charging post, in 2017 the number was 13. Vans, trucks and even ferries are being electrified quickly now.

But, we have several challenges:

1. Range
Most EVs being tested in real life, show a shorter range than what the suppliers advertise. Even measured by WELP. A test in Norw. Car Owners Ass. shows that some have up to 25% less range in summer-, and 30% in wintertime, than advertised. This test is based on a long day trip in average Norw. landscape. Check (https://motor.no/bil/sjekk-motors-rekkevidde-resultater-bilmodell-for-bilmodell/202424) Sorry, no english version.

Teslas have good power efficiency (i.e. kWh per 100 km), mostly due to low air drag (Cd-value). Tesla mod 3 burns typical 11,9 kWh/km in summer, where as the heaviest Audi e-tron 55 burns 20,3 kWh. Rivians, being even higher and heavier, must burn even more. Heavy cars need stiffer tiresides, which also increases rolling resistance, and range. I haven’t seen the burn rate for the Rivians yet, I expect numbers will come when they start rolling. The higher burn rate figures for winter, are caused by power consumption for internal heating, warm seats, defrost, etc. Manufacturers as Tesla, have included heat pumps in their recent models for Scandinavia. A heat pump takes heat from the air, and saves battery power. I don’t know if Rivian includes this. All in all, I’d be surprised if the announced ranges for the different battery pacs are correct in reality. Towing a camper gives extended air drag and is extra weight uphill. Check the consumption thoroughly, before you plan long trips.

2. Charging
As mentioned, we have a pretty good number of chargers, especially considering that folks necessarily have their own chargers at home, and many can charge at work. Still, we experience certain challenges. You can plan your trip using an app that calculates range and consumption, and points out the suitable charging stations for your trip. However, many discover that some chargers are out of order, and some times we see long queues and waiting lines. Many (elder) chargers supply only low effects. Not many can provide 100 or 150 kW or more so far. Rumors also say that when all chargers at a station are in use simultaneously, the Voltage drops, and charging takes longer. To compensate, the station owners encourages you to only charge only up to 80%, as the last 20% takes much longer time per kWh. Tesla also recommends to not charge more than 80%, to prolong battery life. People also report that apps don’t always work for chargers, and payment. We still haven’t seen chargers where you can pay by credit card, like when you fuel. The power at the charger is also much more expensive per kWh, than you pay for electricity at home. Tesla chargers are many, but won’t charge others than Teslas.

3. Home charging
The amount of power your house can supply for a car charger, is probably limited. Don’t expect any quick charge. We are now encouraged to charge only late at knight, to save the powerlines in daytime. Living in a condominium, with a common parking lot, has caused conflicts. The power transformer for the building has a maximum outlet, and can only provide a limited number of extra car chargers. If you are a late EV buyer, you risk getting a NO when you apply the condo for a charger.

Hence, the experience is: Your Rivian most likely will run shorter than what Rivian advertises, and charging is often a disappointment, it takes longer than assumed, and you have to have a plan B, in case the charging station can’t provide the expected charging according to your plan. Your app doesn’t tell if chargers are out of order, or if you are faced with long waiting lines.

The conclusion is: Get the MAX PACK !
Range anxiety is frustrating, and it`s annoying driving the last 50 miles home in 40 miles/h and close behind a slow 18 wheeler to save power and hoping you make it.
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bd5400

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For many electric vehicles, the EPA range estimates are lower, and often more accurate, than the range estimates under the WLTP standard used in Europe. So U.S. buyers may be more likely to see real world range that is closer to their expectations. For whatever reason this does not apply to Tesla though, as I think many of them actually rate with longer range under the EPA test than the WLTP.

From my experience, the two Teslas in our household can get very close to their estimated ranges, though aggressive driving and severe winter weather can very easily shorten that. Given my driving habits and experiences with our Teslas, the cost and tradeoffs of the Max Pack (slower) aren't worth it for my needs. The large pack is plenty of range for daily usage and should be fine for road trips as well. Others, naturally, may have different needs.
 
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DuckTruck

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Norway has, as you probably saw in the 2021 Superbowl ad with Will Ferrell, the highest density of EV in the world. Today app. 20 % of the car fleet. Mainly due to the taxacion policy, EVs are tax free, making them app. 30-40 % cheaper than a similar model fossil fuel car. Last month almost 70 % of all new sold cars were fully electric or chargeable hybrids. This fall, the Tesla Y is the overall most sold car model, last year was The Audi e-tron, the year before, the Tesla 3. Model S also sold in large numbers the last 5 years. When it comes to charging stations, we have today 1.328 charging stations for a population of 5,5 millions. (https://ladekart.elbil.no/more) The number of EVs are growing faster than the number of public chargers being erected. Today we have 19 EVs per charging post, in 2017 the number was 13. Vans, trucks and even ferries are being electrified quickly now.

But, we have several challenges:

1. Range
Most EVs being tested in real life, show a shorter range than what the suppliers advertise. Even measured by WELP. A test in Norw. Car Owners Ass. shows that some have up to 25% less range in summer-, and 30% in wintertime, than advertised. This test is based on a long day trip in average Norw. landscape. Check (https://motor.no/bil/sjekk-motors-rekkevidde-resultater-bilmodell-for-bilmodell/202424) Sorry, no english version.

Teslas have good power efficiency (i.e. kWh per 100 km), mostly due to low air drag (Cd-value). Tesla mod 3 burns typical 11,9 kWh/km in summer, where as the heaviest Audi e-tron 55 burns 20,3 kWh. Rivians, being even higher and heavier, must burn even more. Heavy cars need stiffer tiresides, which also increases rolling resistance, and range. I haven’t seen the burn rate for the Rivians yet, I expect numbers will come when they start rolling. The higher burn rate figures for winter, are caused by power consumption for internal heating, warm seats, defrost, etc. Manufacturers as Tesla, have included heat pumps in their recent models for Scandinavia. A heat pump takes heat from the air, and saves battery power. I don’t know if Rivian includes this. All in all, I’d be surprised if the announced ranges for the different battery pacs are correct in reality. Towing a camper gives extended air drag and is extra weight uphill. Check the consumption thoroughly, before you plan long trips.

2. Charging
As mentioned, we have a pretty good number of chargers, especially considering that folks necessarily have their own chargers at home, and many can charge at work. Still, we experience certain challenges. You can plan your trip using an app that calculates range and consumption, and points out the suitable charging stations for your trip. However, many discover that some chargers are out of order, and some times we see long queues and waiting lines. Many (elder) chargers supply only low effects. Not many can provide 100 or 150 kW or more so far. Rumors also say that when all chargers at a station are in use simultaneously, the Voltage drops, and charging takes longer. To compensate, the station owners encourages you to only charge only up to 80%, as the last 20% takes much longer time per kWh. Tesla also recommends to not charge more than 80%, to prolong battery life. People also report that apps don’t always work for chargers, and payment. We still haven’t seen chargers where you can pay by credit card, like when you fuel. The power at the charger is also much more expensive per kWh, than you pay for electricity at home. Tesla chargers are many, but won’t charge others than Teslas.

3. Home charging
The amount of power your house can supply for a car charger, is probably limited. Don’t expect any quick charge. We are now encouraged to charge only late at knight, to save the powerlines in daytime. Living in a condominium, with a common parking lot, has caused conflicts. The power transformer for the building has a maximum outlet, and can only provide a limited number of extra car chargers. If you are a late EV buyer, you risk getting a NO when you apply the condo for a charger.

Hence, the experience is: Your Rivian most likely will run shorter than what Rivian advertises, and charging is often a disappointment, it takes longer than assumed, and you have to have a plan B, in case the charging station can’t provide the expected charging according to your plan. Your app doesn’t tell if chargers are out of order, or if you are faced with long waiting lines.

The conclusion is: Get the MAX PACK !
Range anxiety is frustrating, and it`s annoying driving the last 50 miles home in 40 miles/h and close behind a slow 18 wheeler to save power and hoping you make it.
Erik,

You had me at "Fire ganger har Motor og NAF samlet alle nye elbilmodeller til test for å sjekke bilenes virkelige rekkevidde."

In all seriousness, thanks for the insights from a country that is way ahead of the curve in the way of living with EV's. The real-world experience of the Norwegians should give pause to all, especially those living in the areas of North America with the greatest extremes in weather. The long distances between cities and current charging infrastructure are important considerations here, especially in the Western U.S. and much of Canada.

That said, should I ever visit any Scandinavian country in the Winter, you've talked me into leaving my R1T at home, in favor of renting a sleek EV sedan upon arrival.

Thanks again, Erik. Great insights and advice!
 
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Northish

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Being in an area that has the greatest one year fluctuations in temp in the world. I will be going with the Max pack
Hear, hear... Difference between summer highest heat index to lowest winter wind chill in a typical year in MN can be 150 to 170°F. Would be good to have reserve power some days.
 

flabyboy

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Hear, hear... Difference between summer highest heat index to lowest winter wind chill in a typical year in MN can be 150 to 170°F. Would be good to have reserve power some days.
Where you at in MN? I'm in Rochester. I had seen a graphic of the temp swings and we are literally the worst in the world. Its crazy
 

DuckTruck

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Where you at in MN? I'm in Rochester. I had seen a graphic of the temp swings and we are literally the worst in the world. Its crazy
In Portland and much of the coastal side of the PNW, we're very fortunate to have the mitigating influence of the Pacific Ocean nearby. Those predominant on-shore airflows keep our highest monthly averages at 80゚F in July and August and our lowest averages of 37゚F in December and January.

This last year, we had some very extreme temperatures here, but I still don't think we had more than a 95⁰ differential from a low of around 20⁰ to an all-time high of 115⁰. First time we've cracked the 110⁰ barrier, and it sucked!

Those more temperate conditions are part of the reason I'm good with the Large Pack. I sure understand the desire and need for some to have the Max Pack, while others will opt for the savings that come with the smallest Pack. But for me, the Large Pack, with ~300 of range is juuust right!

If I were on Team Yellow I just might have to name my R1T "Goldilocks".
 

opnwide

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Holy smoked salmon @Erik , what a nightmare! I see why Will Ferrell and GM never made it to Norway and went to Sweden instead. (Anticipate many Hummer EV’s in Norway?) Thanks for the insight…I’m now starting to see why you guys are so good at cross country skiing in the Olympics.
 
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EdA

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@Erik - excellent post. Cold air is denser leading to more wind resistance. Rain and snow also create more drag on a car. Range is king...
 

Max

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Large pack may be enough for me in Maryland. We probably keep the ICE in the family for another decade to deal with the extremes while driving the EV for 90% of the time. By the time ICE need replacing, battery tech should be in a much better place (of course at my age, so could I).
 

Mister Person

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Thanks for the post and sparking this conversation, @Erik!

My R1S will be a daily driver around Chicago with a handful of trips a year to northern Michigan, about 350 miles one way. I'm curious about the R1S max pack...what will its range be, vehicle curb weight, price, etc. I'll consider it based on those attributes. I'd love to be able to make that trip on one charge. Maybe impossible even with max pack?
 

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Thanks for the post and sparking this conversation, @Erik!

My R1S will be a daily driver around Chicago with a handful of trips a year to northern Michigan, about 350 miles one way. I'm curious about the R1S max pack...what will its range be, vehicle curb weight, price, etc. I'll consider it based on those attributes. I'd love to be able to make that trip on one charge. Maybe impossible even with max pack?
I wouldn't count on the max pack making 350 miles in the winter around Chicago. I make a similar trip to northern WI (almost the UP) about once a month. With the max pack I'd still have to stop and charge, thus I'm going with the large pack.
 
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