Testing the Rivian as a ‘backup’ power source

[Zybane]

Does anyone know if the 120v outlet can output 12 AMPS indefinitely/as long as the Rivian has battery capacity? I'd like to use it as a power source in case of an emergency to charge my off-grid cabins batteries.

IE: does the Rivian not "time out" the outlets or does the Rivian 120v inverter not have any overheating problems running all night or even multiple days?

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[lostpacket]

I believe the Ford has the capability to provide up to 35A @ 220/240V while the Rivian is limited to 15A @ 110/120V. Which is nearly 5X more power than the Rivian.

It was discussed in previous threads that V2H or a more substantial output would be available through a future update but now we know that won't ever be coming to our vehicles. Disappointing but not totally unexpected.

I've seen a few people say this but I want to confirm what the source is that the current crop of trucks cannot be used V2H someday with a SW update (assuming an external inverter/ccs wall box). I believe it but I just want to double check.

Does anyone know where I can confirm this by any chance?

 

[ajdelange]

I've seen a few people say this but I want to confirm what the source is that the current crop of trucks cannot be used V2H

The inverters in the current crop of Rivians are low power signle phase inverters (110 VAC) with the neutral bonded to the truck frame. This architecture is not suitable for V2H.

someday with a SW update (assuming an external inverter/ccs wall box). I believe it but I just want to double check.

Don't believe it! The inverter would have to be beefed up, a second inverter added for the other phase and the neutral isolated from the truck frame. These are all hrdware changes and substantial ones at that. Software changes certainy would be required too. And, of course, the house side interface hardware and software would have to be developed. If that interface winds up robust enough to charge the vehicle battery directly through CCS then that's a whole new can of worms within the truck (hardware and software).

Does anyone know where I can confirm this by any chance?

Owner's manual confirms the basic inverter specs. From there anyone with basic knowledge of how houses are wired can deduce the rest,

 

[lostpacket]

The inverters in the current crop of Rivians are low power signle phase inverters (110 VAC) with the neutral bonded to the truck frame. This architecture is not suitable for V2H.

Don't believe it! The inverter would have to be beefed up, a second inverter added for the other phase and the neutral isolated from the truck frame. These are all hrdware changes and substantial ones at that. Software changes certainy would be required too. And, of course, the house side interface hardware and software would have to be developed. If that interface winds up robust enough to charge the vehicle battery directly through CCS then that's a whole new can of worms within the truck (hardware and software).

Owner's manual confirms the basic inverter specs. From there anyone with basic knowledge of how houses are wired can deduce the rest,

Thanks for the reply. Apologies if I keep asking the same questions over and over, this is not my area of expertise and I am trying to make sure I understand.

So I am not thinking about the 110V outlet, just focusing on CCS. My understanding of DC fast charging is that the onboard inverter is bypassed. And thus with V2H over CCS, you need an external inverter as well as some kind of service disconnect to avoid making crispy linesmen. I think the F150 Lightning's Sunrun equipment performs this function.

So would it work If you had something like this upcoming bi-directional charger: https://wallbox.com/en_us/quasar2-dc-charger
(Or a new Rivian bi-directional charger) assuming Rivian allowed it in the software?

My question is about the hardware in the current LE/Adventure R1. Is there anything from a hardware perspective that would prevent this from working with a Rivian for V2H over CCS?

 

[ajdelange]

Thanks for the reply. Apologies if I keep asking the same questions over and over, this is not my area of expertise and I am trying to make sure I understand.

No problem!

So I am not thinking about the 110V outlet, just focusing on CCS. My understanding of DC fast charging is that the onboard inverter is bypassed.

In DC fast charging the vehicle's charger (which well may contain an inverter) is not used. DC at appropriate voltage to charge the battery is obtained from a completely external source which may be a public charger or a privately owned interface box.

And thus with V2H over CCS, you need an external inverter as well as some kind of service disconnect to avoid making crispy linesmen.

With V2H you transfer DC from the battery to an external inverter which converts it to 240VAC biphase which is suitable for connection to the house wiring. When this is done the house must be isolated from the grid unless the system is really V2G in which case the vehicle can supply power to the house and the grid at the sae time. There must be circuitry present to detect that the grid is up and if it isn't disconnect the vehicle from it.

I think the F150 Lightning's Sunrun equipment performs this function.

I believe it does and in addition can DC charge the battery in the vehicle.

So would it work If you had something like this upcoming bi-directional charger: https://wallbox.com/en_us/quasar2-dc-charger
(Or a new Rivian bi-directional charger) assuming Rivian allowed it in the software?

Yes, conceptrually,. That's exactly what the Quasar 2 is deigned to do provided,,,

My question is about the hardware in the current LE/Adventure R1. Is there anything from a hardware perspective that would prevent this from working with a Rivian for V2H over CCS?

... that Rivian gets together with WallBox and works out an ICS and ICD i.e. an interface spec and interface detailed methodology. To charge the vehicle from the mains the Quasar has to emulate a DC fast charger. To send power to the grid many more details need to be worked out involving communication between the utility and the vehicle. To do V2H only the Quasar has to detect that the grid is down, manage the disconnect and signal the vehicle to close the DC contactor to the DC pins on the CCS connector only when conditions are right. Internal to the truck the changes are going to be mostly in software.

 

[kizamybute']

FYI - I have now plugged the Ecoflow Delta Pro into the R1T’s 120v outlet and, as expected, it charges the DP without issue.

Does the Ecoflow Delta Pro fit in the gear tunnel?

 

[Lsthrz]

Does the Ecoflow Delta Pro fit in the gear tunnel?

Don’t think so.

 

[MoreTrout]

... that Rivian gets together with WallBox and works out an ICS and ICD i.e. an interface spec and interface detailed methodology. To charge the vehicle from the mains the Quasar has to emulate a DC fast charger. To send power to the grid many more details need to be worked out involving communication between the utility and the vehicle. To do V2H only the Quasar has to detect that the grid is down, manage the disconnect and signal the vehicle to close the DC contactor to the DC pins on the CCS connector only when conditions are right. Internal to the truck the changes are going to be mostly in software.

Don't know if you can answer this, but you probably have at least a much more educated guess. Any day now (waiting on permits), my solar is getting installed. I'm getting Enphase with IQ8s, so will have sunlight backup during grid outages. Obviously, the Enphase hardware/software is in place to handle grid outages. My long term hope is that Rivian will get the V2H stuff figured out sometime in the next couple of years. Like I have mentioned before, the chargers at the service centers are Clipper Creek. Enphase bought Clipper Creek. My optimism therefore says that there is already some relationship between Clipper Creek/Enphase and Rivian, so the V2H solution MIGHT be a collaboration with Enphase. So my current hardware/software will be part of the solution and not as much total cost to progress to V2H when/if they get there. My pessimism says Rivian will pull another delusional "we can do it better" like they did with Android/Carplay and make some overpriced proprietary hardware solution. Just curious if you have any insight into the probability or feasibility of this happening.
Option B would be to see what Enphase comes out with next year. The CEO is on record saying the next gen Enphase battery in 2023 will be a "significant step down in cost". I definitely know my Enphase system I will already have can have their batteries added anytime. Their current batteries are great, but not worth the cost.

 

[Bigskyinminnie]

Does anyone know if the 120v outlet can output 12 AMPS indefinitely/as long as the Rivian has battery capacity? I'd like to use it as a power source in case of an emergency to charge my off-grid cabins batteries.

IE: does the Rivian not "time out" the outlets or does the Rivian 120v inverter not have any overheating problems running all night or even multiple days?

I lost power to my house the other week so plugged in my aquarium equipment around 9pm and found that the truck had gone to sleep at some point in the night. In the am, the outlet wasn't powering anything until I woke the truck back up. Power drain was minimal but couldn't say how long it was running.

 

[Zybane]

I lost power to my house the other week so plugged in my aquarium equipment around 9pm and found that the truck had gone to sleep at some point in the night. In the am, the outlet wasn't powering anything until I woke the truck back up. Power drain was minimal but couldn't say how long it was running.

Was there a load/power draw on the Rivian outlet the whole time? If so and the outlet still turned off, that's a damn shame. One less useful thing about the Rivian.

So we can assume the timeout on the outlet power is 8 hours or less.

 

[Bigskyinminnie]

Was there a load/power draw on the Rivian outlet the whole time? If so and the outlet still turned off, that's a damn shame. One less useful thing about the Rivian.

So we can assume the timeout on the outlet power is 8 hours or less.

Hard to say as I was asleep but would imagine draw went to zero once the truck turned the outlet off. I might try another round in a test scenario during the day so I can better understand when and why it stops producing power.

 

[Zybane]

Hard to say as I was asleep but would imagine draw went to zero once the truck turned the outlet off. I might try another round in a test scenario during the day so I can better understand when and why it stops producing power.

Does your aquarium equipment always draw power? Is the water pump always running or does it shut off?

I'm just curious if the aquarium pump turned off and the Rivian sensed no load and turned off the outlet, or the Rivian turned off the outlet with a load being drawn (worse case).

 

[Bigskyinminnie]

Does your aquarium equipment always draw power? Is the water pump always running or does it shut off?

I'm just curious if the aquarium pump turned off and the Rivian sensed no load and turned off the outlet, or the Rivian turned off the outlet with a load being drawn (worse case).

Ah, misunderstood your question. Yes, the return pump and wave maker in the aquarium run 24/7. That and two heaters and a light are all running from one power strip.

 

[Zybane]

Ah, misunderstood your question. Yes, the return pump and wave maker in the aquarium run 24/7. That and two heaters and a light are all running from one power strip.

Ah thanks, ya that's bad news lol.

 

[Bigskyinminnie]

Ah thanks, ya that's bad news lol.

Seems like an easy software fix. Something like "generator mode". Perhaps even be able to set a downside limit to battery level when outlets would shut off.

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