Testing the Rivian as a ‘backup’ power source

[jjswan33]

I lost power to my house the other week so plugged in my aquarium equipment around 9pm and found that the truck had gone to sleep at some point in the night. In the am, the outlet wasn't powering anything until I woke the truck back up. Power drain was minimal but couldn't say how long it was running.

That isn’t supposed to happen. Rivian must of bungled something on the latest update if that is happening. I have run a refrigerator through the night while camping without issue.

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[jjswan33]

Don't know if you can answer this, but you probably have at least a much more educated guess. Any day now (waiting on permits), my solar is getting installed. I'm getting Enphase with IQ8s, so will have sunlight backup during grid outages. Obviously, the Enphase hardware/software is in place to handle grid outages. My long term hope is that Rivian will get the V2H stuff figured out sometime in the next couple of years. Like I have mentioned before, the chargers at the service centers are Clipper Creek. Enphase bought Clipper Creek. My optimism therefore says that there is already some relationship between Clipper Creek/Enphase and Rivian, so the V2H solution MIGHT be a collaboration with Enphase. So my current hardware/software will be part of the solution and not as much total cost to progress to V2H when/if they get there. My pessimism says Rivian will pull another delusional "we can do it better" like they did with Android/Carplay and make some overpriced proprietary hardware solution. Just curious if you have any insight into the probability or feasibility of this happening.
Option B would be to see what Enphase comes out with next year. The CEO is on record saying the next gen Enphase battery in 2023 will be a "significant step down in cost". I definitely know my Enphase system I will already have can have their batteries added anytime. Their current batteries are great, but not worth the cost.

Not sure what your question is. I can’t speak to your solar system but my system has IQ7+ inverters and has a safety shutoff if the grid goes down so that you are not pushing energy back on the grid that could endanger a utility worker doing repairs.

Also my understanding is that current gen RIs will not get V2H. It will have to wait until the next gen LFP batteries with 800V architecture.

 

[MoreTrout]

Not sure what your question is. I can’t speak to your solar system but my system has IQ7+ inverters and has a safety shutoff if the grid goes down so that you are not pushing energy back on the grid that could endanger a utility worker doing repairs.

Also my understanding is that current gen RIs will not get V2H. It will have to wait until the next gen LFP batteries with 800V architecture.

The benefit of the IQ8s are that it continues to power the home during daylight hours if the grid goes down. It doesn't have to shut off when the grid is down. The combination of the IQ8s and some of the other hardware/software prevents it from going back to the grid.
Ultimately I want the backup for night as well as daytime power, and that requires storage. I am hoping that will eventually be the R1T. Ford recently announced the pricing of the added equipment for a home for the Lightning to do it, and it was around $3.8k. My hope is that the equipment that comes with the IQ8 based installation with sunlight backup now is also part of what will allow me to use the truck's battery as that backup power source when the grid is down. The question is how likely is it that the Enphase hardware/software that currently allows power from the solar panels to be used when the grid is down will also be what allows me to use power from the vehicle when the grid is down? That way I avoid another ~$4k for some other piece of hardware for the home when and if the R1s become capable of doing it.
You and others might end up being correct about the current R1s ever being able to do it, but here is what RJ said in that first drive video roundtable discussion. He was discussing a future hardware option that would be required when he said "THIS car will work with that". So the CEO - at least several months ago, directly stated the current R1s would be V2V/V2H capable. Maybe his engineers and lawyers were cringing when he said that, but the fact the video is still up on their website would lead me to conclude the current R1s will be V2X capable in the future with the right hardware. https://stories.rivian.com/lets-just-drive (scroll down to the longer video, discussion is around minute 14)

 

[jjswan33]

The benefit of the IQ8s are that it continues to power the home during daylight hours if the grid goes down. It doesn't have to shut off when the grid is down. The combination of the IQ8s and some of the other hardware/software prevents it from going back to the grid.
Ultimately I want the backup for night as well as daytime power, and that requires storage. I am hoping that will eventually be the R1T. Ford recently announced the pricing of the added equipment for a home for the Lightning to do it, and it was around $3.8k. My hope is that the equipment that comes with the IQ8 based installation with sunlight backup now is also part of what will allow me to use the truck's battery as that backup power source when the grid is down. The question is how likely is it that the Enphase hardware/software that currently allows power from the solar panels to be used when the grid is down will also be what allows me to use power from the vehicle when the grid is down? That way I avoid another ~$4k for some other piece of hardware for the home when and if the R1s become capable of doing it.
You and others might end up being correct about the current R1s ever being able to do it, but here is what RJ said in that first drive video roundtable discussion. He was discussing a future hardware option that would be required when he said "THIS car will work with that". So the CEO - at least several months ago, directly stated the current R1s would be V2V/V2H capable. Maybe his engineers and lawyers were cringing when he said that, but the fact the video is still up on their website would lead me to conclude the current R1s will be V2X capable in the future with the right hardware. https://stories.rivian.com/lets-just-drive (scroll down to the longer video, discussion is around minute 14)

Good information about the IQ8, thanks for sharing.

Regarding what RJ said, I saw that as well but there has been communication from Rivian since then that stated it would not be coming to current gen trucks. Hopefully we are pleasantly surprised and it comes but I wouldn’t count on it.

 

[JamesPolk24]

Interesting data points. We have an F-150 lightning on order as well and hoping to see if it’s inverter would be able to support basic house items in an outage. They’re claiming 9.6kw output I think.

Already plenty of first-hand accounts and news articles of F150 being able to power entire homes. Wedding parties. Etc. Was reported on quite a bit with the F150 Hybrid (same 9.6kw inverter) especially during the Texas power outages last year.

 

[chrismc]

The benefit of the IQ8s are that it continues to power the home during daylight hours if the grid goes down. It doesn't have to shut off when the grid is down. The combination of the IQ8s and some of the other hardware/software prevents it from going back to the grid.

FWIW, I’m contracted to get an Enphase IQ8 system installed in a few weeks. I requested the Sunlight Backup option and my installer refused to sell it to me as his experience was that it is not reliable enough to be worth it (even with me fully understanding all the caveats of it). I was hoping to use it with an Ecoflow Delta Pro to buffer the energy and match the available charge amperage but he wasn’t comfortable with that even. I’m looking forward to the next-gen Enphase battery system!

 

[ajdelange]

Don't know if you can answer this, but you probably have at least a much more educated guess.

Before getting into it I'll say no, I can't give you the answer you're looking for.

Any day now (waiting on permits), my solar is getting installed. I'm getting Enphase with IQ8s, so will have sunlight backup during grid outages. Obviously, the Enphase hardware/software is in place to handle grid outages.

IQ8's? I thought they were mostly for mini-grid applications but I do know they are self clocking. But given that you will have batteries in the system there must be inverters as part of the batteries. Can't those clock IQ7's? IOW I guess I am responding to your question with a question of mu own "Why IQ8's?"

My long term hope is that Rivian will get the V2H stuff figured out sometime in the next couple of years. Like I have mentioned before, the chargers at the service centers are Clipper Creek. Enphase bought Clipper Creek. My optimism therefore says that there is already some relationship between Clipper Creek/Enphase and Rivian, so the V2H solution MIGHT be a collaboration with Enphase.

My gut feel is that this sort of thing won't really move forward until some sort of standards body is formed (if it isn't already) and something worked out by them. The concept of V2H is really no different than a Generator. To be practical the OEMs have to tap directly into the traction battery (i.e. interface through the CCS DC pins) and in any case theere must be some sort of transfer switch. This means a box or boxes to be mounted external to the vehicle. Certainly something doable but what would it take to motivate Rivian (or any other OEM) to do it? I guess Ford has.

So my current hardware/software will be part of the solution and not as much total cost to progress to V2H when/if they get there. My pessimism says Rivian will pull another delusional "we can do it better" like they did with Android/Carplay and make some overpriced proprietary hardware solution. Just curious if you have any insight into the probability or feasibility of this happening.

The external hardware has to come from somewhere. I'm afraid I have no insight as to what Rivian has in mind.

Option B would be to see what Enphase comes out with next year. The CEO is on record saying the next gen Enphase battery in 2023 will be a "significant step down in cost". I definitely know my Enphase system I will already have can have their batteries added anytime. Their current batteries are great, but not worth the cost.

Yes, batteries are rather dear these days.

 

[MoreTrout]

Before getting into it I'll say no, I can't give you the answer you're looking for.

IQ8's? I thought they were mostly for mini-grid applications but I do know they are self clocking. But given that you will have batteries in the system there must be inverters as part of the batteries. Can't those clock IQ7's? IOW I guess I am responding to your question with a question of mu own "Why IQ8's?"

The point of having IQ8's is because I will not have backup batteries as part of the system. I am opting for the "sunlight backup" option. During daylight hours, if the grid goes down, my panels can still provide power to the home. Of course during bad weather and early/late in the day, not enough or full house backup, but the hardware can selectively power what you want it to so most days can run the essentials. If Enphase delivers on their next gen battery in 2023 being a "significant step down in cost", then it may make more sense to opt for that next gen battery. My guess is even if the R1s become V2H capable, the hardware to do it will be about as expensive as the next gen home battery Enphase is going to produce.

Look at the system diagram in this link if you are interested - https://enphase.com/installers/systems/sunlight-backup
And then compare it to the system with the battery backup here. https://enphase.com/installers/systems/home-essentials-backup/iq8

Basically, if the R1T, can serve as the battery in that diagram, then I wouldn't need to purchase a costly and significantly smaller fixed battery. But obviously that would take a significant level of collaboration between Rivian and Enphase. I know, probably a pipedream.

 

[MoreTrout]

FWIW, I’m contracted to get an Enphase IQ8 system installed in a few weeks. I requested the Sunlight Backup option and my installer refused to sell it to me as his experience was that it is not reliable enough to be worth it (even with me fully understanding all the caveats of it). I was hoping to use it with an Ecoflow Delta Pro to buffer the energy and match the available charge amperage but he wasn’t comfortable with that even. I’m looking forward to the next-gen Enphase battery system!

I kind of have that feeling myself. Even though the sunlight backup might not be that great yet, the way I look at it is that at some point in the future I will either add a fixed battery or use my R1T or some other future EV to do the job. The links to the diagrams in my post above helped my thought process. The controller is the higher cost item ($2.5k) required for either sunlight backup alone or to use with a battery. So knowing I'm going to need that piece of the system in the future anyway, I might as well put it in now and use whatever the sunlight backup does give me. Chances are the $2.5k it costs now will be higher in another year or two, so if I wait to add it when I choose a battery option I'll pay more.

 

[jjswan33]

For fun this morning I wanted to try and repeat this backup power attempt. Since I sold my adventure van and and no longer have my Goal Zero Yeti power system.

I plugged one of the below pictured dongles and it indeed works to attach the Rivian to my transfer switch. I guess there may be a reason it isn’t safe but I‘m not sure what it would be since both the truck and the switch are still grounded but I’m not sure??

Anyway this also seems to confirm the issue is a ground loop with the truck.

 

[Dark-Fx]

For fun this morning I wanted to try and repeat this backup power attempt. Since I sold my adventure van and and no longer have my Goal Zero Yeti power system.

I plugged one of the below pictured dongles and it indeed works to attach the Rivian to my transfer switch. I guess there may be a reason it isn’t safe but I‘m not sure what it would be since both the truck and the switch are still grounded but I’m not sure??

Anyway this also seems to confirm the issue is a ground loop with the truck.

I measured with a meter a little while back, ground measured 60V from neutral. Perfectly floating between the middle of neutral and hot. I'm not sure if there is a way to bond it to neutral in the truck, because using a bonding plug and nothing else plugged in causes mine to trip out right away.

 

[Max]

I plugged one of the below pictured dongles and it indeed works to attach the Rivian to my transfer switch. I guess there may be a reason it isn’t safe but I‘m not sure what it would be since both the truck and the switch are still grounded but I’m not sure??

There are seven pages on this thread and I am too lazy to read them all. I don't get power failures that often and don't mind using an extension cord directly to my fridge or router when I do (30 feet away). Can you save me some time and tell me which one of the following is true?

• I can directly plug into R1 using extension cord?
• I have to use what you used to isolate the ground?
• There is no safe way to do it for the fridge or router?

 

[jjswan33]

There are seven pages on this thread and I am too lazy to read them all. I don't get power failures that often and don't mind using an extension cord directly to my fridge or router when I do (30 feet away). Can you save me some time and tell me which one of the following is true?

• I can directly plug into R1 using extension cord?
• I have to use what you used to isolate the ground?
• There is no safe way to do it for the fridge or router?

Fair enough, these threads tend to drift pretty quickly.

• You can plug an extension cord into the truck and power a fridge or a router directly plugged into a power strip then into the truck
• In the above setup you should not need to isolate the ground in fact you wouldn't want to
• No reason it wouldn't be safe AFAIK

The issue I had is that I have a transfer switch that connects to the ground for my house and then the Rivian has it's own ground, as I understand this creates a ground loop when I plug the extension cord into the truck then into the transfer switch

 

[PostMinivanDad]

So power went out today here in Sandy. I thought ok, lets test the V2L power output on the truck.

My setup. I have a 4 circuit transfer switch that powers: 1. Fridge, 2. Furnace, 3. Living room 4. Master bedroom

According to my Goal Zero Yeti 6000X when the TV, Fridge, Modem, 4 LED B30s, i’m pulling ~800 Watts. Rivian trips out instantly, not sure why as it is supposed to support 1500W.

I’ll have to check later if I can plug the charger for my GZ into the Rivian, at least then I can maybe use the truck to recharge the GZ in an extended outage.

Edit: I found the following article:
https://www.electricgeneratorsdirec...ipping-a-Generator-With-a-Bonded-Neutral.html
I am assuming that the Rivian has that GFCI protection and the problem is incompatibility with my transfer switch.

June 2nd Update: The truck will work with my transfer switch if I don't connect the truck ground to the transfer switch using the below dongle. So this seems to confirm my initial issue was a ground loop of some kind.

Considering the same setup.

Could I ask what type of furnace you have and if it worked properly? The flame sensor worked no problem with that transfer switch?

I have a Carrier inifinity furnace with an ECM motor and there is contradicting info online as to what a non pure sine wave inverter like the rivian’s would do to it.

I wish they offered the option for a beefier inverter…

 

[zipzag]

Considering the same setup.

Could I ask what type of furnace you have and if it worked properly? The flame sensor worked no problem with that transfer switch?

I have a Carrier inifinity furnace with an ECM motor and there is contradicting info online as to what a non pure sine wave inverter like the rivian’s would do to it.

I wish they offered the option for a beefier inverter…

Most better air handlers are 240V in the U.S.

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