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emoore

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Musk won't even leave twitter after we voted him off the island by a substantial margin.

But there is nothing unusual about Musk when compared to other of the most innovated industrialists.

Nikola Tesla was truely a bizarre man. While he would be better described as a genius inventor, he still makes Musk seem normal.
I would agree that Musk was the typical innovated industrialists a few years ago. I think he has gone off the deep end to the detriment of all his companies.
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SANZC02

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No way EA is going to be able to do that. They have chargers down for months at a time.
I’m holding off on EA bashing for now. I’ve only had my R1S for 3 weeks tomorrow so have not had it long enough to be jaded yet.

I did do a 5k mile loop back to CA from, Normal, IL. Stopped at 33 EA chargers across 23 states and never failed to charge. I did see a few chargers that said unavailable but the others were up and working.

I’ve been driving a Tesla for 6.5 years, I’ve seen chargers off line at the Superchargers as well in that time but admittedly less frequently.

I will say that most of the EA locations I visited were small with only 4 chargers where a small Supercharger location seems to be 6 or 8 chargers.

Seems like most of the issues with EA is related to the negotiation or payment process which is way less complicated on a closed system like Tesla has. I think the process will get more robust over time. I will be curious to see how Tesla chargers will fair once they start having to broaden the negotiation process with other makes.
 

zipzag

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I would agree that Musk was the typical innovated industrialists a few years ago. I think he has gone off the deep end to the detriment of all his companies.
He is very likely creatively past peak. But his two major innovative companies are still growing, so in my book he gets credit for that.

But imagine having children under twenty and yet adding twitter to how he spends his time. I don't get how anyone can look at his words and action and believe he is an admirable human being.

In my book at lot of parallels to Steve Jobs. But Steve was a private person.
 

emoore

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He is very likely creatively past peak. But his two major innovative companies are still growing, so in my book he gets credit for that.

But imagine having children under twenty and yet adding twitter to how he spends his time. I don't get how anyone can look at his words and action and believe he is an admirable human being.

In my book at lot of parallels to Steve Jobs. But Steve was a private person.
I was going to say he reminded me of Steve Jobs, at least years ago. Jobs was more private and I don't think went down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories like Musk is doing now. I do give him credit for Tesla and Space X, both moved the industry in different and better ways. But I feel like he's gone off the deep end and if I were another company I would never trust him to do what he says he's going to do. That's another reason no big car company is going to use the Tesla "standard".
 

MrMetlHed

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Not to sidetrack this further, but...

Jobs was more private and I don't think went down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories like Musk is doing now.
Steve Jobs died of a slow and treatable form of cancer that he chose to treat with alternative medicine initially.

"Instead, he tried a vegan diet, acupuncture, herbal remedies and other treatments he found online, and even consulted a psychic. He also was influenced by a doctor who ran a clinic that advised juice fasts, bowel cleansings and other unproven approaches, the book says, before finally having surgery in July 2004." - https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/steve-jobs-chose-herbal-medicine-delayed-cancer-surgery-1.1124855

(Now the surgery and chemo may not have cured him and he may have been doomed anyway, but he did look to Dr. Google for medical advice, so I'd say that qualifies as going a little down the rabbit hole at the very least.)
 

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Marchin_MTB

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No way EA is going to be able to do that. They have chargers down for months at a time.
All depends on how uptime is defined unfortunately. Sometimes, a stall just responding to a ping from EA might be considered “up”, whether it provides power or not.
 

EVentually

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A friend of ours just got their R1T bricked by an EA charger, so I'd happily welcome any level 3 alternative right now.
 

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I do agree that Tesla started the EV revolution but I think there would be less Tesla hate if Musk stepped down and it was run as a "normal" company. Also I do think Rivian would still exist if Tesla didn't but it might be more difficult or take longer to get going.
As a Model Y and R1T owner I don't want Musk going anywhere. Teslas are amazing vehicles. The chargers are ubiquitous and they work. All the haters can hate-on but they will be using Superchargers when they open up.

"Normal" company...what like GM or Ford or Toyota??? They are leading no one anywhere. As for Rivian existing without Tesla going first...get real. Amazon and Ford would have never invested if Tesla hadn't proven EV viability.
 

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True, I should have said its next to nothing compared to the number of super chargers Tesla already has.
Tesla has also 75% if the EV market. More fast chargers is better in my book. If one wants access to all Tesla SC, one should buy a Tesla. In the long run, all SCs will open up, but that's years down the road.

Between the RAN network, uptime requirements from the Feds, and new Tesla SCs, there should be much better access to fast charging in a matter if a couple years.
 

Jarico75

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I would think Tesla would approach conversion this way.
1. Add CCS capable units when expanding any charging stations.
2. Add CCS capable units when creating new charging stations.
3. Add CCS capable units when replacing inoperable charging units.
4. Add CCS capable units at under utilized stations
 

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zipzag

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I would think Tesla would approach conversion this way.
1. Add CCS capable units when expanding any charging stations.
2. Add CCS capable units when creating new charging stations.
3. Add CCS capable units when replacing inoperable charging units.
4. Add CCS capable units at under utilized stations
Why? To be nice to competitors?

Tesla's choices will be in whatever is in their long term best interest. 3500 chargers is not a lot. Tesla's only motivation here may be to appear fair and cooperative and not further become a target of criticism.

Doing half of the 7000 as destination chargers is a pretty cynical move that sounds reasonable to policy makers.

I'm most interested is in whether Tesla will build any new stations that are all CCS compatible. I do expect Tesla to do some variety of CCS to avoid being accused of being technically compliant but minimally helpful. Over time it will be interesting to unpack Tesla's strategy as CCS stations are installed.

The worst case scenario is that Tesla's announcement eases the presurre on auto manufacturers to do more to improve CCS charging.

But I doubt Rivian's plans change at all. Rivian will likely install enough to look like the RAN plan continues, but not spend more than necessary.
 

NY_Rob

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I did find the 97% uptime number interesting, in real world numbers that means a charger can be down 9 days a year.
As I had mentioned earlier this is going to be a very difficult if not impossible metric to track and enforce.
Kyle/Out of Spec visited several EA sites on Dec 22nd during a CO cold spell.. and every single one of the brand new BTC branded EA chargers errored out at all the sites he visited that night when he tried them (and other EV owners ran in to the same issue.. it wasn't a Rivian problem).. but according to the EA app... they were up all that time and ready to use.
If the government is going to accept the providers uptime numbers (like how the EPA accepts the auto manufacturers range numbers and now you get F150 owners seeing red when their "300 mi range" truck only gets 200mi range) then the station uptime requirement is virtually worthless.
 

zipzag

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Taking government money and falsely claiming to meet a spec is called fraud. VW has had a lesson in this area. The EA CEO is gone and looks to have been fired. It's easy to speculate that running a system biased towards reporting stations online was highly disturbing to senior management.

VW has a lot of structural problems and is perhaps the most at risk large auto maker.
 
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So without more details, "select" sites could be 5% of locations, or it could be 75% of locations.
Or it could be 20% of locations like the title of the post says.
 

manitou202

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Or it could be 20% of locations like the title of the post says.
The title was edited after I posted my comment once more details were released.
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