Tesla, Rivian in court over trade secrets

SCA

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I don't think Tesla cares at all about the outcome of this - they did what they intended to. They dirtied Rivian's reputation in the public eye. I have no idea whether Rivian is guilty, but regardless, Rivian has been portrayed as a technology thief. People will never know or remember whether it's mostly about HR matters, not core tech, Rivian is now perceived as having stolen from the only US tech success story of the last 50 years.
I hate so much the legal system is now so focused on the court of public opinion, and not the actual court of law. As messed up as the latter is, the former is a complete farce and very dangerous. I expect that if lawsuits were only allowed to be revealed AFTER the suit is complete this, and many other, suits would simply never come to be. All you need to do is FILE a suit, let it get some press and you have damaged your rival. It doesn't matter whether the other person is guilty or not, damage done - the company that filed the suit has already "won" regardless of the legal verdict.
How much press coverage would it get if the suit was tossed? How prominent would it be? And would people motive or remember it? And then would it tarnish Tesla's reputation. Almost none, not the least, nope and finally not at all.
It's like if a newspaper runs a huge headline about someone being *accused* of something terrible. They can splash that on page 1 for weeks and then when it's disproven or dropped, MAYBE they put a small article buried on page 30. Or a 2 sentence retraction if they actually made an accusation that was later refuted.
I am trying to reserve judgment about both companies until the suit is over, but having worked for a number of the largest US-based tech companies for decades and knowing how they work internally, I am extremely suspicious of this suit. I have never worked for a company that would want ANYTHING to do with someone else's stolen IP and when you leave - talk about a cluster****! The amount of incompetence involved in employees leaving a company would make "Office Space" look like a recruiting video for Initech!
THIS!!! I just had this conversation twice over the weekend. It is horrible what Musk is doing. Sadly, his cult like followers (who have not read the actual lawsuit) spread misinformation and the general public assumes Rivian is stealing Tesla tech. If anybody actually took the time to read the lawsuit and understand it they would see it for what it is. This is an attempt to smear the competition and to scare anybody from leaving Tesla to it's competition. Musk's ego cannot handle somebody else stepping into his sandbox. In the end I will place a bet that Tesla will end up paying Rivian's legal fees when they lose. But the damage is already done. Mission accomplished. The court system should not be allowed to be used this way.

My favorite line is "Musk's goals are for more EV competition to move to sustainable transportation." What a bunch of B.S. Guy is an unethical, ego maniac. His behavior towards competition and how he treats his employees awful.





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jjwolf120

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My favorite line is "Musk's goals are for more EV competition to move to sustainable transportation." What a bunch of B.S. Guy is an unethical, ego maniac. His behavior towards competition and how he treats his employees awful.
These sort of statements are unhelpful.
 

SANZC02

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These sort of statements are unhelpful.
Might not be helpful but the statement has some valid points;

- SEC forced him to resign as CEO because of reckless illegal tweets
- Sued by SpaceX employees over working conditions.
- Constantly publicly over stating status and delivery of things like Full Autonomous, CT, Semi, etc...
- Threatening to pull factory out of California after receiving huge subsidies from the state
- Illegal threatening employees with loss of stock options in tweet if they vote to unionize

There are many more examples if you do a quick search. We know he is not an idiot so all of this must be calculated, It's one thing to walk in the gray areas of the boundary but seems like he may be frequently a little beyond that.
 

jjwolf120

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Might not be helpful but the statement has some valid points;

- SEC forced him to resign as CEO because of reckless illegal tweets
- Sued by SpaceX employees over working conditions.
- Constantly publicly over stating status and delivery of things like Full Autonomous, CT, Semi, etc...
- Threatening to pull factory out of California after receiving huge subsidies from the state
- Illegal threatening employees with loss of stock options in tweet if they vote to unionize

There are many more examples if you do a quick search. We know he is not an idiot so all of this must be calculated, It's one thing to walk in the gray areas of the boundary but seems like he may be frequently a little beyond that.
My point had a lot more to do with tone than if Musk is a bad person. It isn't helpful to attack a person on a forum like this. If you have a point to make, make it. Don't accuse someone of being a terrible person, it has no bearing on the issue.

Also, he didn't threaten to pull the factory our of California, he threatened to move the headquarters out of California.
 

SANZC02

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My point had a lot more to do with tone than if Musk is a bad person. It isn't helpful to attack a person on a forum like this. If you have a point to make, make it. Don't accuse someone of being a terrible person, it has no bearing on the issue.

Also, he didn't threaten to pull the factory our of California, he threatened to move the headquarters out of California.
Pretty sure it was both, here is one article stating it but I saw it in several places.

1617748545742.png
 

jjwolf120

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Pretty sure it was both, here is one article stating it but I saw it in several places.

1617748545742.png
Technically you are correct, but below is a link to the actual tweet. What he threatened, was to move the headquarters immediately and the factor at some in determinant point in the future.

Below is a copy of the text of the tweet in case the link doesn't work or someone doesn't want to follow it.

"Frankly, this is the final straw. Tesla will now move its HQ and future programs to Texas/Nevada immediately. If we even retain Fremont manufacturing activity at all, it will be dependen on how Tesla is treated in the future. Tesla is the last carmaker left in CA."
 

jjwolf120

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You guys should get lawyers and sue each other about proper ways to argue the merits of frivolous lawsuits. ;)
Are you available? What are your rates?
 

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These sort of statements are unhelpful.
I was being nice. I sugar coated it. I could go on and on about the countless things the guy does. The point is the guy is unethical as is this lawsuit. His ego cannot handle being challenged.
 

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It's unfortunate that the facts of the case will be lost to most who skim the headlines, however I don't think Tesla suit is without merit. HR information regarding compensation for key personnel can be nearly as damaging as stealing the plans for Elon's Flux capacitor. Just need to pay Jim Keller whatever Tesla pays him + a subscription to the jelly of the month club and bam you have the secret sauce. Not saying this is what happened but just an example of how HR info could be misappropriated by a rival company.
I am not afraid to admit that I'm a big fan of Elon Musk. While he clearly didn't invent electric anything I think it's safe to say he nearly single handedly got BEV to where they are today. He is a genius transformational thinker, a force of nature. That being said he is an eccentric egomaniac not without some serious faults. I'm not sure you can be so bold as to think you can change the world through sheer will, ok and some cash, without a dash of ego mixed with a sprinkle of eccentric and a touch of crazy.
 

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It's unfortunate that the facts of the case will be lost to most who skim the headlines, however I don't think Tesla suit is without merit. HR information regarding compensation for key personnel can be nearly as damaging as stealing the plans for Elon's Flux capacitor.
Meh, the reason employers want to keep compensation secret is that it makes it harder for employees to negotiate fair pay, more difficult for employees to argue discrimination, and makes it easier to give outrageous benefits to executives.

I'd rather have more transparency. Maybe publicly-traded companies should be required to publish pay rate information for all positions?
 

Mjhirsch78

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HR information regarding compensation for key personnel can be nearly as damaging
Salaries should not be secret. As a teacher, you can search and find all of mine. That has had 0 impact on my ability to do my job. In fact, with a state scale, I need a bigger reason to jump ship than most because I already know what they would offer me. So unless the environment is rough at my job or I want to change locations for life reasons, I’m more inclined to stick around. It has had little to no impact on my various schools over the years other than the misguided few who try to argue it is too high (yup, that’s a thing). They whine, but the school moves on.
 

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This came up on my YT feed last night... its a "click-bait" titled clip. One of those kind with really nothing newsworthy, just the commentator's opinion blended with countless shots taken from the web. Feel free if you're bored enough

 

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Compensation structure & figures are one thing, but performance data on specific employees is another (good people to recruit).

Tesla has some valid gripes here, but I strongly believe they're pursuing it for publicity (and possibly employee intimidation) reasons & don't know how they can prove significant financial damage.

All in all, this is a nuisance but not a huge issue for Rivian.
 

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