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Tesla may start launching CCS based superchargers in North America

SDH

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Can't see Tesla doing this any time soon. I think they'd be happy NOT to take the govt. money and keep their customers who will certainly balk at opening up 'their' chargers.

IF (and a big if) Tesla does add CCS for other EV's I bet the numbers will be small, the cost will be way, way higher and wouldn't surprise me if they limit the times to something very unsociable. They'd still be able to go to the govt and say we opened our network up without screwing Tesla owners.

Wouldn't plan on this team. Hope to be proved wrong.
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Dark-Fx

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Isn't that kid the click-bait video'r?

I had a guy at work ask me yesterday if my skid plates are falling off because of his dumb ass. I'm definitely avoiding his trash now.
They are crappy skid plates anyway.
 

Dark-Fx

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Can't see Tesla doing this any time soon. I think they'd be happy NOT to take the govt. money
Are we thinking of the same Tesla? They struggled for a long time with profitability, and the fact of the matter is they wouldn't exist now without suckling the government teat.
 

Autolycus

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Are we thinking of the same Tesla? They struggled for a long time with profitability, and the fact of the matter is they wouldn't exist now without suckling the government teat.
Isn't most of their all-time profit from selling their emissions credits to other automakers? Those emissions credits that they got from the government . . .
 

COdogman

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Can't see Tesla doing this any time soon. I think they'd be happy NOT to take the govt. money and keep their customers who will certainly balk at opening up 'their' chargers.

IF (and a big if) Tesla does add CCS for other EV's I bet the numbers will be small, the cost will be way, way higher and wouldn't surprise me if they limit the times to something very unsociable. They'd still be able to go to the govt and say we opened our network up without screwing Tesla owners.

Wouldn't plan on this team. Hope to be proved wrong.
Literally ALL of Musk’s companies exist ONLY because they receive(d) government money.
 
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Ralph

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I don't see any reason Tesla would not want to expand their charging infrastructure. But that may not mean what many have hoped it would mean. At least not to start with.

Is it possible that Tesla could offer CCS compatibility only at new charger installations, funded with NEVI money? Perhaps they would not have to offer compatibility at the super charger stations funded entirely with Tesla money even though Elon has said they would do so?

The screen grab above shows how the stations could be identified with the "CCS compatible" attribute.

So maybe Tesla can "have it both ways". Avoid upsetting Tesla customers that are concerned about "their" chargers being flooded with CCS vehicles in the near term. And at the same time, win state bids to implement federal supported NEVI stations "every 50 mile" stations.

The number of chargers in the "Tesla owners network" increases due to the NEVI additions, and they get a new revenue stream from people owning CCS vehicles. Over a longer term, they could back-fill CCS compatibility to locations in their existing network selectively - maximizing revenue, but carefully avoiding upsetting Tesla owners. Until no distinction was necessary.

One other thought. It's not clear to me whether or not Tesla could charge Tesla owners a cheaper rate than others at the NEVI funded stations. Since each state creates (has created?) their own NEVI plan, rules might even be different from state to state. Despite the fact that the feds need to approve of each states implementation plan or have a rule already in place to prevent price differences at sites (partially) funded by NEVI.

Maybe somebody here knows....
 

Autolycus

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The number of chargers in the "Tesla owners network" increases due to the NEVI additions, and they get a new revenue stream from people owning CCS vehicles. Over a longer term, they could back-fill CCS compatibility to locations in their existing network selectively - maximizing revenue, but carefully avoiding upsetting Tesla owners. Until no distinction was necessary.

One other thought. It's not clear to me whether or not Tesla could charge Tesla owners a cheaper rate than others at the NEVI funded stations. Since each state creates (has created?) their own NEVI plan, rules might even be different from state to state. Despite the fact that the feds need to approve of each states implementation plan or have a rule already in place to prevent price differences at sites (partially) funded by NEVI.

Maybe somebody here knows....
If they follow this sort of path, the most logical path would definitely be to retro-fit the stations with the least traffic -- or at least the highest rate of available chargers. I also wouldn't be shocked if they coded the firmware on the stations that have shared capacity to always favor a Tesla over another brand when determining the power share. For NEVI-funded stations they would have to make sure each charger does a minimum of 150kW regardless of any sharing, but I think the v3 are capable of that?

As for whether they can charge different rates: I haven't seen anything in the federal regs that explicitly says a network can't have tiered pricing based on a membership. If I haven't missed anything, I don't know why Tesla couldn't handle it similarly. Worst case they would just create a "network", allow a subscription (hey, it's more revenue anyway!!) and just waive the membership fee for Tesla vehicles.

Edit to add: Meant to say that yes, states could certainly have some additional requirements for how they distribute the grants like potentially saying they won't give the grants to anyone who has variable rates based on membership, vehicle type, etc.
 

Autolycus

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Oh, and one more reminder since there was an allusion to Tesla's failed effort to convince other manufacturers to use their charge port: That port was never an option for NEVI funding no matter what other manufacturers did. Federal regs specifically required CCS, and those were promulgated based on clear statutory authority to set standards for interoperability of any new chargers. If Tesla wants any chance at NEVI funds, it was always going to have to use CCS connectors.

A broader point though: It has long been argued by many that the Tesla Supercharger network was a huge asset at first. It was critical to Tesla's ability to get any market traction at all. Eventually, however, it will become a liability. Even until now, it's been a huge money lower if you just look at the network in isolation. They're dumping TONS of money into maintaining it. In the next few years, it will no longer be the huge marketing advantage for selling the actual cars that it has been up until now. Once that happens, the network will just be a massive cost center without the benefit. They'll want to bring in additional revenue to support it. I still think they'll eventually have to ditch their own charging port and switch new cars to the J1772/CCS Combo.
 

emoore

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Remember Tesla can make $$ off the chargers they open up to everyone else. As all these other EVs hit the market they can profit if they time it right. The question is how will they do this? Will they install


Literally ALL of Musk’s companies exist ONLY because they receive(d) government money.
Exactly. Musk loves government money and to complain when other companies get it.
 

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Prime

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Are we thinking of the same Tesla? They struggled for a long time with profitability, and the fact of the matter is they wouldn't exist now without suckling the government teat.
Since you’re so heavy on Tesla. Let’s not forget the American auto industry (GM, Chrysler, Ford) would be in shambles if taxpayers didn’t bail them out in 2008. To the tune of over 10+ billion dollars. Don’t mean this to get political in any sense, but Telsla has been handed out $ the same way other companies have and at the very least they’ve been on the forefront of automotive innovation not just taking money to stay afloat and make more V8 guzzling truck engines.
https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/12/19/bush-bails-out-us-automakers-dec-19-2008-1066932
 

Dark-Fx

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Since you’re so heavy on Tesla. Let’s not forget the American auto industry (GM, Chrysler, Ford) would be in shambles if taxpayers didn’t bail them out in 2008. To the tune of over 10+ billion dollars. Don’t mean this to get political in any sense, but Telsla has been handed out $ the same way other companies have and at the very least they’ve been on the forefront of automotive innovation not just taking money to stay afloat and make more V8 guzzling truck engines.
https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2018/12/19/bush-bails-out-us-automakers-dec-19-2008-1066932
I don't really care for whataboutism. You're missing the point.
 

DB-EV

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Rumor alert: I was chatting up a Tesla engineer at a party. He said they will build next gen high speed as CCS.

He also said don't let your Rivian run down to 0. They tore one down and it causes major problems like bricking the vehicle.
 

SANZC02

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Related to the earlier tweet / story, but with a little additional context…

https://driveteslacanada.ca/superch...veals-magic-dock-ccs-compatibility-hawthorne/
It will be interesting to see how any of that is implemented because the Tesla cords are too short to reach most cars. For instance the Rivian would have to pull into the adjacent space blocking 2 chargers from a Tesla.

Would be nice to see them opened up just more complicated than a simple adapter.
 

Autolycus

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Rumor alert: I was chatting up a Tesla engineer at a party. He said they will build next gen high speed as CCS.

He also said don't let your Rivian run down to 0. They tore one down and it causes major problems like bricking the vehicle.
CCS connectors only? CCS protocols? Some sort of mix of CCS and Tesla connectors? Tesla connectors with some sort of integrated adaptor solution? Sorry, still lots of questions about what it will look like in practice.

As I've said before, I suspect Tesla will eventually move entirely over to CCS on both sides, superchargers and the cars themselves. I think it's a few years away, but I think it happens.
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