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Tax Credit - Senate Parliamentarian Reportedly Ruled

SASSquatch

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Rivian can create a lot of goodwill and circumvent all of this for current reservation holders by simply giving everyone the option to sign a binding (but breakable with some small penalty - I think 100 bucks sounds right) purchase agreement so that we can all fit in under the old rules and take a deep breath.

I will stop playing musical chairs with my configuration and go back to waiting for OC and other options. Hell, I might even treat myself to a dark wheel upgrade which is an upsell for Rivian anyway.
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SASSquatch

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Yep, all bill text that has been seen has the 40% requirement taking effect immediately upon guidance being issued by secretary of transportation.

Unless Rivian lets us sign PBAs, which they need to do. Period.
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Jac

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Yep, all bill text that has been seen has the 40% requirement taking effect immediately upon guidance being issued by secretary of transportation.

Unless Rivian lets us sign PBAs, which they need to do. Period.
A version that is a binding sales contract as required under the proposed legislation to be in place before the President signs the legislation.
 

TXR1S

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A version that is a binding sales contract as required under the proposed legislation to be in place before the President signs the legislation.
Agreed. I havent seen a PBA, but someone in the other thread posted that is states on the first page that is it "Binding". And its in writing, so I would think it qualifies. Ill try to find the other post to have it in this thread also.


Here per Nuclianba
It states on the first page in all caps that "THIS AGREEMENT CREATES A BINDING LEGAL CONTRACT". A paragraph later: "You agree to purchase the Vehicle as described in your saved configuration as of the date of this Agreement from Rivian, LLC. or its affiliate". No termination provisions for the order for me I can find. Contractually requires Rivian to sell at the prices as of the date of the agreement. They have outs from the contract but they can't terminate for convenience, only if they discontinued the configuration I've ordered. If I fail to take delivery, I'm responsible for any and all costs related to the failure to accept.
 

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From CNN

"Still, there's a significant caveat: Automakers and consumers likely won't be able to take advantage of this tax credit over the next few years. At the insistence of Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin, the tax credit was written in a way so that automakers are forced to move their EV supply chains away from China and to the US and countries where the US has free trade agreements. Vehicles must be built in North America, and EV batteries must also not come from countries like China.
As a result, US automakers likely won't be able to offer the credit in the next few years as they try to build up their domestic supply chains, Democratic Sen. Debbie Stabenow of Michigan said."
This seems like a feature not a bug in the eyes of Manchin. He was generally resistive to EV incentives at all. So it is unsurprising to me that the incentives "remain" but are so hard to achieve, particularly in the short term that they effectively disappear.
 

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The Rivian lawyers better be on this. A few simple check boxes online to sign the purchase agreement and we’re good through 2023! I emailed customer service and got nowhere.
 

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I am in favor of the battery requirement, even if it makes the tax credit currently unreachable for most. It incentivizes industry (by dangling money in front of their faces) to pay for source material from countries that aren't our adversaries. Battery and semi-conductor technologies will define the 21st century; being reliant on an adversarial nation to develop and produce both will create an even more dependent West, eroding its ability to conduct R&D or stand up any meaningful domestic industry. If that happens and conflict breaks out, our supply chains will collapse and they will have the advantage. And if conflict never comes, they'll still wield as much soft power as OPEC did in the latter half of the 20th century (and continues to have now). Spurring demand for North American-sourced materials with this bill and the Chips Act will lower the bar of profitability in these industries and bring it within reach of domestic companies, allowing them to start and expand their mining, processing, and manufacturing footprints. The benefits of this will be massive and allow us to maintain our economic, technological, and military advantages. So, yes, it might cost *me* a little more, but its a price I'm absolutely willing to pay.
 

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I think for most of us who are reservation holders the sourcing requirements won't impact our ability to get the EV credit.

The income and price caps though will come for us. I am eliminated by income caps, but not on price caps. How does that make sense?

With the exception of the 22" wheels, which I think are now going to have to come off, I am basically at the base level and would be priced out if the EV credit comes off the table. Especially this year with all of the extra costs with inflation.

I think price caps and income caps make sense because you don't want to have the EV incentive be a subsidy for wealthy americans to buy fancy toys, but the 150/300 income and 80K price cap just does NOT make sense in our current environment. It knocks out too many folks who otherwise would be motivated to buy an EV over an ICE or even a hybrid.

The easiest solution would be to add a waiver to any new manufacturers who are in play as of the enactment of the legislation who have not yet exhausted their 200K of original credits. That way you aren't playing favorites by disadvantaging them vs the legacy auto manufacturers who already benefited from the 200K credits, got to scale on the EV side, and are now in a better position to be competitive on cost.
If I were one of the new EV automakers and this "transition" is not provided, I would be leery to make future decisions based on "current" policies. Who knows if they will pull the rug out from under me again?

GR
 

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It’s over.

 

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I am in favor of the battery requirement, even if it makes the tax credit currently unreachable for most. It incentivizes industry (by dangling money in front of their faces) to pay for source material from countries that aren't our adversaries. Battery and semi-conductor technologies will define the 21st century; being reliant on an adversarial nation to develop and produce both will create an even more dependent West, eroding its ability to conduct R&D or stand up any meaningful domestic industry. If that happens and conflict breaks out, our supply chains will collapse and they will have the advantage. And if conflict never comes, they'll still wield as much soft power as OPEC did in the latter half of the 20th century (and continues to have now). Spurring demand for North American-sourced materials with this bill and the Chips Act will lower the bar of profitability in these industries and bring it within reach of domestic companies, allowing them to start and expand their mining, processing, and manufacturing footprints. The benefits of this will be massive and allow us to maintain our economic, technological, and military advantages. So, yes, it might cost *me* a little more, but its a price I'm absolutely willing to pay.
100% agree. The west’s reliance on tech and manufacturing from countries that hate us will be our undoing. Both bringing chip production here and providing incentives for companies advancing our tech will secure our future.
 

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I am in favor of the battery requirement, even if it makes the tax credit currently unreachable for most. It incentivizes industry (by dangling money in front of their faces) to pay for source material from countries that aren't our adversaries. Battery and semi-conductor technologies will define the 21st century; being reliant on an adversarial nation to develop and produce both will create an even more dependent West, eroding its ability to conduct R&D or stand up any meaningful domestic industry. If that happens and conflict breaks out, our supply chains will collapse and they will have the advantage. And if conflict never comes, they'll still wield as much soft power as OPEC did in the latter half of the 20th century (and continues to have now). Spurring demand for North American-sourced materials with this bill and the Chips Act will lower the bar of profitability in these industries and bring it within reach of domestic companies, allowing them to start and expand their mining, processing, and manufacturing footprints. The benefits of this will be massive and allow us to maintain our economic, technological, and military advantages. So, yes, it might cost *me* a little more, but its a price I'm absolutely willing to pay.
Agree on all of what you said, but still seems like we could get all these benefits while providing for a reasonable transition period that will help the manufacturers stay viable while bringing supply chains back to the US.
 

Gamma rays

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It’s over.

There is always a glimmer of hope that some sort of amendments can be introduced in the future, right? Perhaps with heavy EV manufacturers lobbying after a new Congress is in place (not intended to be political).

GR
 

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There is always a glimmer of hope that some sort of amendments can be introduced in the future, right? Perhaps with heavy EV manufacturers lobbying after a new Congress is in place (not intended to be political).

GR
I guess it’s possible, but the odds are so small I couldn’t even dare to hope.
 

Mark_AZR1T

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If the bill is signed into law, waivers will be issued that will allow most every manufacturer of EV's to qualify....100% for 2022/2023 Rivian purchases including those with window sticker prices over $80K......My LE window sticker price is below.......(accessories will not count towards the cut-off)......

What a sales price bargain: $74,875 - $7500= $67,375!!!

Rivian R1T R1S Tax Credit - Senate Parliamentarian Reportedly Ruled IMG20220806181511
 

SASSquatch

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If the bill is signed into law, waivers will be issued that will allow most every manufacturer of EV's to qualify....100% for 2022/2023 Rivian purchases including those with window sticker prices over $80K......My LE window sticker price is below.......(accessories will not count towards the cut-off)......

What a sales price bargain: $74,875 - $7500= $67,375!!!

IMG20220806181511.jpg
You sound confident in your assertion about waivers. Where are you getting your information?
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