Tax Credit Proposal - House Bill 11/3

[Dark-Fx]

Can't tell if you're joking, trolling, or ... just extremely misinformed.

But:
- There's no mainstream EV with meaningful solar built-in
- Because the physics of current battery/motor/solar inefficiencies means it's literally impossible
- And even if it were technically possible, it would be malpractice to sell such a car without an onboard charger, lest you never ever run out of juice at night, or never ever want to quickly shift rooftop solar at home into your car batteries.

Even the upcoming expected "solar EVs" like the Lightyear one and Aptera have options for plugging in. Very strange concern.

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[sub]

Can't tell if you're joking, trolling, or ... just extremely misinformed.

But:
- There's no mainstream EV with meaningful solar built-in
- Because the physics of current battery/motor/solar inefficiencies means it's literally impossible
- And even if it were technically possible, it would be malpractice to sell such a car without an onboard charger, lest you never ever run out of juice at night, or never ever want to quickly shift rooftop solar at home into your car batteries.

Yes, I was joking.

But your arguments against it a solar only BEV sound exactly like things people would have said about BEV's back in 2010 when the previous/current tax credit was introduced. Sure there are no solar EV's today for good reasons. But why needlessly limit the credit to what is available / possible now.

 

[Aroohoo]

Yes, I was joking.

But your arguments against it a solar only BEV sound exactly like things people would have said about BEV's back in 2010 when the previous/current tax credit was introduced. Sure there are no solar EV's today for good reasons. But why needlessly limit the credit to what is available / possible now.

As a preorder holder, I have a vested interest in there being some sort of credit that would be applicable to BEVs.

That said, if the end goal was to reduce pollution and green house gas emissions, wouldn't a better policy not necessarily select BEV technology but be more general? Maybe something like:

• Life cycle emissions less than X assuming Y% renewable energy source
• MPGe>Z
• Tail pipe emissions less than A per B unit of fuel

Could even have specific numbers for different vehicle classes (car, light duty truck, heavy duty truck, buses, etc).

This would at least allow industry and the market to throw a bunch of stuff at the wall.

Now, I do realize that there are entrenched interests, lobbyists, etc that push for specific carve outs for their industries (e.g. the Union/made in USA provision in the current bill), but one can dream.

 

[jjswan33]

Yes, I was joking.

But your arguments against it a solar only BEV sound exactly like things people would have said about BEV's back in 2010 when the previous/current tax credit was introduced. Sure there are no solar EV's today for good reasons. But why needlessly limit the credit to what is available / possible now.

Well I believe the credit is listed to only last until 2032. If some other technology comes along before then and they want to include it they could always update the law.

I mean politicians don't have any trouble agreeing on common sense issues right? (Sarcasm)

 

[Smithery]

Yes, I was joking.

But your arguments against it a solar only BEV sound exactly like things people would have said about BEV's back in 2010 when the previous/current tax credit was introduced.

In 2010, nobody would've said these things about BEVs.

Because in 2010, we'd already had:
- The EV1 in the mid 90's
- The Ford Ranger EV in the late 90's
- The Chevy S10 EV in the late 90's
- The 1st generation Rav4 EV in the late 90's
- The Tesla Roadster, demonstrated in 2006 and first shipped in 2008
- The Nissan Leaf, revealed in 2009 ahead of going on sale in 2010
- The Tesla Model S, revealed in 2009 ahead of going on sale in 2012
- The 2nd generation Rav4 EV prototyped in 2010 ahead of going on sale in 2012.
- Probably many others that are less important to history but still showed a highway ready BEV was possible.

Sure there are no solar EV's today for good reasons. But why needlessly limit the credit to what is available / possible now.

If someone had proposed the BEV tax credit in the early 90s before the EV1 unveil, they would've been mocked for wasting everybody's time.

Because any serious scientist, engineer, or technologist would shoot down the BEV as not even prototype-viable, much less commercially-viable.

The original EV tax credit came about in 2010 because there was growing momentum behind an already established product category (see above) and legitimate bi-partisan reason to promote its continued growth.

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To your point though... If somebody demonstrated a 100% clean and 100% off grid vehicle that was actually practical, the tax break would likely be amended in a heartbeat in a rare show of bipartisanship.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

If you don’t qualify, I wonder if you can lease instead, have Rivian take the credit (some portion is applied to the lease), then turn around and buy out the lease?

 

[nfrank]

Has anyone bought a car and got the existing $7,500 credit? How will Uncle Sam know if I optioned out my R1T over $80k? Do they check local sales tax records? Do they look at the window sticker? I have a feeling they’ll just pass anything that has an approved make and model.

Any info?

 

[St Bernard]

Has anyone bought a car and got the existing $7,500 credit? How will Uncle Sam know if I optioned out my R1T over $80k? Do they check local sales tax records? Do they look at the window sticker? I have a feeling they’ll just pass anything that has an approved make and model.

Any info?

Do you want to sign your name to a fraudulent tax return? If they catch it you can’t drive your Rivian in Prison.

 

[Blur1t]

Do you want to sign your name to a fraudulent tax return? If they catch it you can’t drive your Rivian in Prison.

Sadly if they put all the people that complete fraudulent tax returns In prison, there wouldn’t be enough room. No but seriously, I tell my clients, it’s (the 1040)just a piece of paper and you can turn it in with anything you want written on it and claimed, but as long as my name is at the bottom you better have some supporting documents…. It’s just a bunch of fines, penalties and lots of Interest if you get audited, then you open the door for whatever else you may or may not have done and go back as far as they like because you now have them reason to. That’s one monkey no one needs on their back!

 

[nfrank]

Do you want to sign your name to a fraudulent tax return? If they catch it you can’t drive your Rivian in Prison.

Sorry, my intent wasn’t to try to commit tax fraud and advertise it first. I was wonder since the irs doesn’t have a way to check, do they even care or ask?

Will the requirement to meet be <$80k msrp, but rather buying a certain model

 

[Taycanfrank]

Has anyone bought a car and got the existing $7,500 credit? How will Uncle Sam know if I optioned out my R1T over $80k? Do they check local sales tax records? Do they look at the window sticker? I have a feeling they’ll just pass anything that has an approved make and model.

Any info?

They have your VIN. Anyone can search a VIN and get a window sticker. If you're in a state with sales tax that can check that as well. Or they can have the dealership supply that information. Or if you have a loan they can check that.

They probably care if you're asking for them to send you $7,500. It's based on MSRP not model.

 

[SANZC02]

Sorry, my intent wasn’t to try to commit tax fraud and advertise it first. I was wonder since the irs doesn’t have a way to check, do they even care or ask?

Will the requirement to meet be <$80k msrp, but rather buying a certain model

You will have to see how the IRS interprets the bill. In several states and other municipalities that had caps on vehicle values they go off specific models and not actual MSRP per vehicle.

The final word on this would probably not come out until much later in the year when the final 2022 tax regulations are released. I would think many of us will have purchased the vehicles before the IRS instructions are finalized.

 

[Taycanfrank]

You will have to see how the IRS interprets the bill. In several states and other municipalities that had caps on vehicle values they go off specific models and not actual MSRP per vehicle.

This is very interesting and I didn't realize that. Obviously it'd be fantastic for us if they just automatically qualified the R1S/R1T and we didn't have to sweat it.

But as you mention, we probably won't know for sure in time so it's probably best to keep below the 80k. Hopefully Rivian offers a creative solution to make it simpler when ordering.

 

[Blur1t]

Sorry, my intent wasn’t to try to commit tax fraud and advertise it first. I was wonder since the irs doesn’t have a way to check, do they even care or ask?

Will the requirement to meet be <$80k msrp, but rather buying a certain model

Completely understand,I’d have to see the way it’s worded when the IRS documents the rules. I was like you thinking along those lines too, they may leave some gray area, like the Covid ruling on taking out IRA’s all you have to do is say it was for Covid reasons, that Can get very vague, and they gave you up to 100000 too…

 

[emoore]

Completely understand,I’d have to see the way it’s worded when the IRS documents the rules. I was like you thinking along those lines too, they may leave some gray area, like the Covid ruling on taking out IRA’s all you have to do is say it was for Covid reasons, that Can get very vague, and they gave you up to 100000 too…

I don't think they "gave" you $100K. You could take that out of your retirement but have to pay it back in a few years.

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