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Tax Credit Changes in new bill [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS & ARGUING]

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EBEG

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Which makes AGI caps even dumber. Some guy that was making $600k+ for years and retired with a fat nest egg qualifies under the new rules, but the young guy who just got a nice pay bump to counteract our runaway inflation doesn’t.
Agreed. Income compared to assets is tricky. I once saw the financials of a guy with $20 million in assets. His annual income was $85k. Newly minted doctors can easily owe $400k in loans, which makes $250k a year a lot less than it seems. It's called capitalism and not incomeism for a reason.
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ironpig

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The 200,000 model cap was a better way to promote new EV production and specifically American Manufacturing. It gave new companies some way to accurately project their sales models and incentives. That's how Tesla benefitted on the Model S. Now the asterisk after the car price will be more confusing for the consumers.

I'd rather see a Percentage based rebate:

10% Rebate on EVs $50k and under
5% Rebate on EVs $50-75K
2.5% Rebate on EVs $75K-100K
No rebates for EVs over 100K.

It ain't perfect, but it's easier for consumers to understand across all models and manufacturers.
 

mkg3

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Get rid of incentives for EVs. When mfgs put a compelling product for sale, incentives are not necessary. The table below shows Tesla US sales since 2014. The current incentives started phasing out in the last quarter of 2018 and was completely gone in 2019. It is clear that sales increased WITHOUT the Federal EV Tax Credit.

Rivian R1T R1S Tax Credit Changes in new bill [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS & ARGUING] 1659468902679


Do you believe Rivian will not sell R1/R2 without incentives?

I realize everyone would like windfall of $$ but it is at a cost of something else, or worse at the expense of larger deficit.

If you believe its green reason to drive EV, then money should not matter. Its your inner morals and beliefs, right?

Personally, I believe, government should level the playing field and provide no incentives. Let the mfgs fight for putting compelling products that people want. The transition from ICE to EVs will happen much faster this way.
 

Nuclianba

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Here is the response I just received from Rivian. It is definitely not what I was looking for and hope Rivian will be willing to work with their customers some once the legislation presumably passes.

"We have seen this request from community members for the very same reason, it's definitely understandable. However, we are not providing such an opportunity at this time. Written and binding contracts are in the form of your purchase agreement and since you have not entered the purchase process, we are unable to fulfill your request."
Did you get this from the generic CS folks? For the few of us max pack reservation holders who got a guide this summer and signed a PBA, this sure makes it sound like rivian considers those binding. That basically means I have to wait for the max pack... With guaranteed pricing on the truck, inflation, and grandfathering to the old tax credit, there is no way I could ever get a truck as capable for this price point. Hope more of you get a PBA done to lock your credit in before this thing gets signed (assuming Sinema doesn't burn it all down)
 

Gshenderson

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No. Stop spending. Don't raise taxes to fund things we don't need.
You brought up “sides”. Inconvenient truths…

Rivian R1T R1S Tax Credit Changes in new bill [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS & ARGUING] 1659473546194
 

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Gshenderson

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I’m probably in the minority on this, but I’d prefer they do away with the tax credit or rebate completely and instead put that money towards building out charging infrastructure. Cost is not the biggest impediment to EV adoption right now IMO. It’s charging infrastructure range anxiety. I get asked a lot more about range than I do cost of the truck.
 

Atlrivian

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“We're gonna put from the Green New Deal, millions of billions of dollars cleaning our good air up. … Since we don’t control the air, our good air decided to float over to China’s bad air so when China gets our good air, their bad air got to move. So it moves over to our good air space. Then now we got to clean that back up, while they’re messing ours up.” Herschel Walker, Senate Candidate GA
Hey that's potentially my next senator!
 

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Gavinmcc

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I saw this today..

https://electrek.co/2022/08/02/rivian-rivn-not-happy-left-out-new-ev-tax-credit/

and the line the I thought was important..

Technically, Rivian’s starting prices are under $80,000, but the automaker doesn’t plan to deliver those cheaper versions for a few years...

.. WTF?
Well for us who reserved before 3/22, there are models under 80k. But if you were to go to the Rivian site, you can not build a Rivian right now under 85k. Well not a model that will release in 2022 or 2023 (maybe not till 2024?). A lot depends on when they will do an Explore model (that could be 79,500 next year), but more so when they will do the dual motor and standard pack.
 

TollKeeper

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Well for us who reserved before 3/22, there are models under 80k. But if you were to go to the Rivian site, you can not build a Rivian right now under 85k. Well not a model that will release in 2022 or 2023 (maybe not till 2024?). A lot depends on when they will do an Explore model (that could be 79,500 next year), but more so when they will do the dual motor and standard pack.
That wasnt the part that worried me.. the second half of the quote was... a few years
 

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Gavinmcc

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ah...thanks.

That could be more in relationship to R2 models being smaller and cheaper and made in Georgia?

I expect that to be a few years as the plant isn't built yet (will take some time)
 

DJG

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Get rid of incentives for EVs. When mfgs put a compelling product for sale, incentives are not necessary. The table below shows Tesla US sales since 2014. The current incentives started phasing out in the last quarter of 2018 and was completely gone in 2019. It is clear that sales increased WITHOUT the Federal EV Tax Credit.

1659468902679.png
I think you are misunderstanding what the tax incentives actually are, which is a manufacturing subsidy. If they only benefitted consumers, as it appears at face value, OEM's would not be lobbying for them so ferociously. They are doing so because that is money that goes into their pockets to incentivize the investment required to shift capacity over to EV production from ICE production (at least from the legacy maker perspective). For the upstarts, it provides better margins that greatly help them on a path to sustainability, which in turn made/makes them more attractive for investment from the capital markets.

Without the incentives, Tesla would have had to forecast lower prices for their models and possibly might have decided it wasn't feasible. Rivian may not have attracted the capital necessary to get where they are today, if they had to charge $7,500 less on every vehicle sold which would have been a longer road to profitability and a riskier bet.

In a world with supply and demand equilibrium (admittedly not where we are today), prices for EVs would be lower without incentives, so it really makes no difference to the consumer whether they exist or not. The market sets the price (net of any applicable incentives) that a product can be sold for and the seller should be pushing the limits of what that is on a constant basis.
 

Acoustic71

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“We're gonna put from the Green New Deal, millions of billions of dollars cleaning our good air up. … Since we don’t control the air, our good air decided to float over to China’s bad air so when China gets our good air, their bad air got to move. So it moves over to our good air space. Then now we got to clean that back up, while they’re messing ours up.” Herschel Walker, Senate Candidate GA
Methinks someone took a few too many hits to the head during their playing years.
 

Donald Stanfield

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Income limit takes me out. I'm really thankful I have my configuration confirmed and should be getting my truck this year.
 
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