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Tax Credit Changes in new bill [LOCKED DUE TO POLITICS & ARGUING]

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SASSquatch

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I guess a lot of people here will be kissing that tax credit goodbye in 2023. Glad I received my Lightning here in 2022 as I think the current rules apply.

On one hand it's a bummer that the income limit is where it is, but on the other hand if you're in the higher income brackets I don't think the tax credit will substantially change a purchase decision, whereas it will matter a lot at the lower incomes. The one caveat is I know that all of us who had been expecting it sort of baked it in mentally, so letting it go may be hard.
The income limit is absolutely stupid and I disagree that it wouldn't change your purchase decision because your income is a function of your cost of living.

If I am making over $300K jointly in podunk pick your city/state USA with low cost of living then I'm golden and missing out on $7500 is likely not a deal breaker.

If I am making over $300K jointly in a major metropolitan area with HIGH cost of living like WMA, NY, CA, that $7,500 makes all the difference in the world. That is why the original $500K limit made more sense - for those of us who are in high cost of living states ESPECIALLY with the insane amount of inflation that is going on.

This is likely a Joe Manchin compromise because his understanding and appreciation for income levels is rooted in his constituents in WV who are likely making close to the US average income of ~65K.
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Sgt Beavis

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If the income limit stays at 300K AGI, that is going to really suck for some of us, but here's my question. If it is point of sale, how does that work? You will OWE that money back in taxes when you file the subsequent tax year?
Iā€˜m not sure anyone knows those details yet.
 

SASSquatch

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Iā€˜m not sure anyone knows those details yet.
If it truly is point of sale, then I don't how you would be able to execute this any other way. You may not have even filed your taxes at the point of sale. I guess the 1 year look-back that was referenced could come into play - but then you have the dealer/auto manufacturer having to verify your tax returns which sounds like a logistical headache.
 

astonius

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Agreed.

The space program is a prime example of wasteful government spending. However, the process of getting us there drove innovations and thinktanks that had incredibly far reaching implications even through today. The private sector NEVER would have gotten us there because there was no ROI on all of this.
Are you really arguing that EVs and clean energy have no private sector incentive? What's the most valuable auto company in the world right now?
 

astonius

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I don't know, I think I see your point pretty clearly. You are against government spending, period. What I missed is where anyone suggested that lack of government spending is "the problem".

The government basically has 2 tools at their disposal to effect change. Legislation and funding/incentives. I don't believe legislation alone is sufficient to drive the changes required over the next 50 years, especially given the economics this early in the change cycle. At this stage, both manufacturers and consumers need to be incentivized to drive enough initial product demand to warrant mining companies investing to deliver more raw materials, power companies to start beefing up grids, and companies such as EA to invest in upgrading and expanding charging networks. Without evidence of adequate sustained demand (translation: future profitability), nobody is going to be willing to invest the trillions it is going to take to build the supply chains and infrastructure required to move us beyond today's petroleum based society. And I most certainly don't want the government to have to pick up the tab for all of that.

Given the choice of maintaining the status quo until Mother Nature puts humanity in its place or until petroleum products are no longer economically viable, I would choose to invest in making change now. Even if that investment isn't made exactly as I would choose to do it myself.

You're entitled to a different opinion.
"Investment" is a nice way of putting it. Politicians want two things: your money and your vote. As long as they can convince you the only way to achieve your desired outcome is through them they'll continue to get both.
 

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MilliM

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The income limit is absolutely stupid and I disagree that it wouldn't change your purchase decision because your income is a function of your cost of living.

If I am making over $300K jointly in podunk pick your city/state USA with low cost of living then I'm golden and missing out on $7500 is likely not a deal breaker.

If I am making over $300K jointly in a major metropolitan area with HIGH cost of living like WMA, NY, CA, that $7,500 makes all the difference in the world. That is why the original $500K limit made more sense - for those of us who are in high cost of living states ESPECIALLY with the insane amount of inflation that is going on.

This is likely a Joe Manchin compromise because his understanding and appreciation for income levels is rooted in his constituents in WV who are likely making close to the US average income of ~65K.
I live in SoCal and I get it. $300k *could* be practically paycheck to paycheck without making any extravagant lifestyle choices. At the same time, there is no shortage of luxury cars with no incentives, or people optioning up lower priced cars, wherever Iā€™m out on the road.

I may be wrong, but I believe that if we lived in some alternate reality where we got to this point of EV adoption without incentives, and Rivian/Lucid/Porsche were all coming to market with their EVs without anyone expecting a tax credit, demand would be virtually the same and weā€™d still be dealing with demand outstripping supply.

Like someone else posted elsewhere, Iā€™d rather see the incentives going to higher earners going to improvements in the charging infrastructure.
 

R1Sky Business

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Well this pisses me off. Assuming some version of this passes, my Rivian will once again cost me an extra $7500 since there's zero chance of getting a max pack before 2023 and my MSRP will be way over the proposed $80k limit.
Point of Sale rebate is very specifically defined so that only licensed auto dealers are eligible. Rivian and Tesla et. al. are not going to be able to offer, at least as I read it.
So it's a FORD Bill.....
 

MilliM

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So it's a FORD Bill.....
Not if itā€™s an extended range Lariat or the Platinumā€¦both are too expensive so Ford isnā€™t likely thrilled. The same person who wants a nice Rivian might want a more well optioned and longer range Lightning and they are SOL.

Got mine on Saturday Iā€™m happier than a pig in $hit - absolutely love it. Still really excited about the R1S.
 

R1Sky Business

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No. Just means there would not be a point-of-sale price reduction. (Which, mark my words, most dealers will keep a big chunk of anyway.)
Words are marked.
 

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R1Sky Business

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Not if itā€™s an extended range Lariat or the Platinumā€¦both are too expensive so Ford isnā€™t likely thrilled. The same person who wants a nice Rivian might want a more well optioned and longer range Lightning and they are SOL.

Got mine on Saturday Iā€™m happier than a pig in $hit - absolutely love it. Still really excited about the R1S.
Winner šŸ†!!!!
 

SANZC02

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Hey donā€™t get me wrong, Iā€™ve donated a ton of money to Uncle Sam over the years and if I qualify for some to go back in my pocket I will certainly take it.

That being said, if I needed to count on that 7500 to buy (or even justify buying) I would not be getting a Rivian.
 

mabowden

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Are you really arguing that EVs and clean energy have no private sector incentive? What's the most valuable auto company in the world right now?
Is this guy for real? No I'm arguing sometimes what looks like needless spending drives innovation.
Tesla took full advantage of that tax credit to get them off the ground.

Electrify America wouldn't exist if the feds didn't force VW to do it.

I will no longer reply to these troll posts.
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