Tank Turn-Anyone heard more about this?

[Gshenderson]

I don't think it's fair to say Tesla and Rivian are similar in how they communicate.

Tesla exaggerates everything. Rivian tells us nothing.

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[SANZC02]

Tesla exaggerates everything. Rivian tells us nothing.

So maybe they are the same, one tells us nothing we can trust and one tells us nothing.....

 

[kanundrum]

Under Promise, over deliver is all good but need to get to that delivery part eventually lol.

 

[DuckTruck]

Do I feel safe in saying that we'll never see an R1T (or R1S) on stage with RJ and a sledgehammer, or with an employee and a bag of rocks, asking the vehicle to withstand an assault on the door panels and windows? Yep.

Do I want my Rivian to land right-side up on a barge at sea, after helping to put humans into orbit, high above the Earth? That would be cool.

Do I need either of these capabilities? Not really.

Do I want my Rivian to be able to do tank turns? Hell yes!

For $5,000 (plus accessories), would it be cool if the Camp Kitchen would cook breakfast for me, after detecting that I'm three minutes from waking? That would be a useful feature (and may help to justify the price).

Again, do I need either of these capabilities? Again, not really.

I know the expectation has been set for these things to be capable of doing Tank Turns. But if I ever crawl into confines that are too tight to make a seven, or nine-point turnaround, I'm not sure I feel like the prudent thing to do would be to push a button, stomp on the Go Pedal, and hope for a clean 180⁰ to get me out of trouble. Years of conditioning (and of doing stupid stuff) tells me that backing out of the jam I got myself into is really my best move. Maybe it will teach me to limit future stupid moves. You know, Darwin was fairly adroit.

It would be great to know the Rivian is capable of doing a quick u-turn, or seven 360's in a few seconds, but the most likely reason I would ever use this feature would be to show off in a muddy field. Don't get me wrong, because that would be a great party trick! I just don't think I need it.

If given the choice of any of these functions or capabilities, please give me the pre-wake cook feature. I love breakfast and trust technology to poach eggs and make perfectly crispy bacon better than I can ever hope to. And, frankly, for the asking price of the Camp Kitchen, I believe perfectly crispy bacon and poached eggs should be the expectation.

 

[DuckTruck]

Tesla exaggerates everything. Rivian tells us nothing.

I love the fact that even with these two very different corporate (and individual) philosophies, so many people here are also Tesla owners. I think these two companies will become great rivals, and in this competition, will help to lead the transformation to greater and greater adoption of EVs for the vast majority of all personal transportation needs in the years to come.

 

[SANZC02]

I love the fact that even with these two very different corporate (and individual) philosophies, so many people here are also Tesla owners. I think these two companies will become great rivals, and in this competition, will help to lead the transformation to greater and greater adoption of EVs for the vast majority of all personal transportation needs in the years to come.

Guilty as charged.... Have one and will soon(ish) will have the other.... I hope they behave and don’t start wrestling in the garage....

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Tesla exaggerates everything. Rivian tells us nothing.

I'd rather not be lied to.

I'm more bothered by what Rivian has shown us and now taken away, than by what they haven't shared.

Waiting sucks, but it sucks a lot less to wait until June for the real information, rather than be sung songs of praise and lies only to find disappointment (a la Tesla on everything).

 

[thrill]

... if I ever crawl into confines that are too tight to make a seven, or nine-point turnaround, I'm not sure I feel like the prudent thing to do would be to push a button, stomp on the Go Pedal, and hope for a clean 180⁰ to get me out of trouble...

The tank turn is really just a demo of how tight a turn can be made with four wheel directional control - you don't *have* to do it all in a single spot, it's just as easy for such a system to simply aid in making a single turn through a very tight switchback.

 

[kylealden]

I did read that it will GPS fenced, but that will also be problematic because what if an area got paved? How long will it take for the GPC to update? I think a warning will be sufficient, and let owners know that any damage is not covered under warranty or something of that sort.

FWIW, I think the only likely "geofencing" option would be similar to what Tesla does for Summon, which is basically: If you're on anything we recognize as a public road (from nav data), no soup for you. Anything else is fair game as long as the cameras/ultrasonics are happy.

That plus a big scary "RIP your tires" dialog probably gets Rivian out of trouble. While the stresses are no doubt higher, it's not conceptually that much different than engaging your low range and diff lockers on pavement in any vehicle going back sixty years. (My '69 jeep has a placard saying not to use 4WD on dry paved surfaces.)

It would be cool if they go the extra mile and estimate actual traction as others have suggested, but I don't think that would be enough in and of itself. (If you find pavement partway through the 360, for example, you're in trouble.) The "accept this warning to engage reckless feature" dialog is probably the most important part.

 

[DuckTruck]

The tank turn is really just a demo of how tight a turn can be made with four wheel directional control - you don't *have* to do it all in a single spot, it's just as easy for such a system to simply aid in making a single turn through a very tight switchback.

Oh, I get it! But I have a cousin with farm property and he loves to play with his tractors, dirt bikes, quads, and trucks out back. I'm going to offer to give him a ride for his birthday in my nice, quiet electric truck, across one his fields. I'll tell him "Let's see how close we can get to one of your unassuming cows", without also cluing him in beforehand about the tank-turn capability. Then, when he least expects it, BAM! Six or seven sudden rotations in the mud! Should be fun!

Not sure how to get him to first put on the Birthday Grampers I plan to give him for his 60th, but hey, the seats are supposed to impervious to the elements anyway, right? ??

Seriously, your explanation is spot on. I would likely test this feature very slowly once in the mud, once in a grassy situation, and maybe once in a sandy and/or gravelly spot. Each time I see doing no more than 180⁰ slowly, just to know how to it works before ever getting my dumb @$$ in a position of ever possibly needing this really cool feature.

Of course, if my cousin's gullible enough to put on the Party Grampers first, all bets are off!

 

[Pherdnut]

The important thing to me is that it's a truck that can do Crazy Ivans. And when people say "Hey that's kind of stupid" you can pull out your kitchen and make them a grilled cheese sandwich. But seriously if the R1T doesn't get a starring role in at least one heist movie, that will be a crying shame.

 

[skyote]

@DuckTruck that's both awesome & hilarious!

 

[Zoidz]

When I was younger I did power-brake burnouts and donuts. If Rivian can't match the durability of 1990's/2000's Toyota/Chevy products then we have much larger concerns.

Did those cars have 4WD 700 hp? EACH WHEEL on the Rivian has as much horsepower as some of those 90's cars. You're not even comparing apples and oranges - your comparing grapes and coconuts.

 

[Zoidz]

I'm confused about tank turn. My understanding was that the friction and stress on the vehicle would be less than that of youthful burnouts and donuts that CommodorAmiga mentioned because the passenger and driver wheels were turning in opposite directions. I understand their will be friction due to the angle of the tire relative to motion. Am I wrong in my assumption? In practice I can do a donut in a rear wheel drive F-150 on dry pavement without major damage so does this mean that the R1 has less functionality?

There are significant lateral forces on the tires/suspension in a tank turn. With reference to the vehicle's normal motion, the energy is still applied front to back, but the vehicle front and rear are moving sideways. That's applying huge lateral forces on the wheel bearings, CV joints and tires. Do this on a hard surface, and there's a good chance something will bend or break, especially if one wheel loses traction and the other three are fully gripping.

Comparing a two wheel donut to a 4 wheel tank turn has little in common. The front wheels of the F-150 are free to rotate and contributing zero energy and torsional stress. A somewhat better comparison is a skid steer loader. Have you ever taken a close look at the tires on a used skid steer? Listened to the noise from the tires when doing a tank turn? Looked at the marks on the dirt or pavement when turning a skid steer loader?

Yes, the Rivian could be designed like a skid steer loader to take the abuse of a tank turn on dry pavement. But then it would cost more, be heavier, have more unsprung weight and drive like ...... a skid steer loader.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Did those cars have 4WD 700 hp? EACH WHEEL on the Rivian has as much horsepower as some of those 90's cars. You're not even comparing apples and oranges - your comparing grapes and coconuts.

There is no point discussing anything with you if you're going to argue in bad faith.

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