Snow Tires for the 21s (and chains and socks)

[jwardell]

It all depends on where you are and your situation. In my case, I need to go up extremely steep curvy road to get home, as well as unplowed dirt road that is often solid packed ice. I just barely made it several times last winter with brand new unstudded hakkapalittas on my model 3. Our wrangler with offroad tires slid into the ditch. The stock 21s are not going to make it for sure. And nearly half of the vehicles around here run studs in the winter, which don't do nearly as much damage as the frost heaves everywhere

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[Donald Stanfield]

This whole thread makes me happy I now live in a place where stuff like this isn't a concern anymore.

 

[hroussel]

Here in the province of Quebec the winter tires are mandatory in the winter. So it means the truck/suv could not be used for several months in the year. That's kind of ridiculous.

The only option would be to find an alternative 20in wheel and matching winter tires.

I'm not expecting my R1S (on 21in wheels) before mid 2023, so hoping solutions will come up by fall 2023.

 

[Riviot]

The only option would be to find an alternative 20in wheel and matching winter tires.

Or just buying the stock 20s... Does the 3PMS not make it qualify as a winter tire?

 

[bjcleaver]

Or just buying the stock 20s... Does the 3PMS not make it qualify as a winter tire?

The 3PMS does not qualify it as a true winter tire. That’s not to say it isn’t good and it may work for many/most - I’m going to give them a go this winter on my R1T and see how they do. We get a ton of snow but not a lot of ice so I think they will be fine. I believe the 3PMS is rated for performance on medium packed snow but not ice or anything else. A true winter tire is made from a softer compound and will have better performance than the best 3PMS A/T tire.

 

[jwardell]

Or just buying the stock 20s... Does the 3PMS not make it qualify as a winter tire?

That was my plan, but rivian is not able to sell you wheels, with or without tires. Many of us have tried. And the stock off-road tires would not do well on icy roads.

Another issue is the 20's are a much smaller diameter tire, so the truck needs to be reprogrammed by service not only to accept the new TPMS but apparently all drive modes are tweaked for the different wheels, as well as range calculations.

They will no doubt figure it out eventually, but I'm running out of time.

 

[crashmtb]

The 3PMS does not qualify it as a true winter tire.

the severe service rating absolutely does qualify a tire as a winter tire in every single winter tire regulation.

From Quebec, where winter tires are mandatory from December to March:

 

[jjswan33]

That's such a stupid article.
The reasoning of "nobody needs studded tires every single day of winter so no one should use them" is just silly. Life is compromise.

I don't use studded tires, because most of my driving is in town or on the highway...and I leave my winter tires on past the March 30th cutoff for studded tires.

My sister lives out in the country and uses studded tires on every vehicle they own, despite most of their commuting being on paved highways.

Yeah there is a lot of negative pieces out there about studs and it’s true that most people probably don’t need them.

I know in the PNW if you want to get into the mountains in the winter then they are a big plus, there is usually a pretty big temp gradient and freeze/thaw conditions so the mountain roads are icy very often. True if you have good (studless) winter tires and then can throw chains on them in those icy conditions where you want to get up the mountain then that is the best of both worlds. Since the R1T can’t take a chain then studded tires are what’s left. So that is what I will likely be doing.

 

[bjcleaver]

the severe service rating absolutely does qualify a tire as a winter tire in every single winter tire regulation.

From Quebec, where winter tires are mandatory from December to March:

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. I was just trying to make a point about the tire compound - a tire that is only meant to be used in winter vs. a tire that can be used all year including winter. They would both have the 3PMS but the winter-only tire might perform better.

 

[the long way downunder]

Two separate observations.

The 3PMS does not qualify it as a true winter tire. That’s not to say it isn’t good and it may work for many/most - I’m going to give them a go this winter on my R1T and see how they do.

I don't know about areas that mandate snow tires. But I have seen episodes of The Simpsons.

A true winter tire is made from a softer compound and will have better performance than the best 3PMS A/T tire.

A full winter tire (e.g. Hakka) is surely going to give better snow/ice traction.
While I tend to agree with the anti-stud article linked in this thread, in my experience a Nokian with studs (eco studs) is distinctly better than non-studded with the otherwise same tread pattern and compound (afaik.)
I have the "luxury" of 20s on the R1T and will try K02s (just because I happen to have them) and see how that goes. I'm concerned the weight of the Rivian (only 1000lbs more, but still, half a ton …) could be an issue.
The real test is getting the snowmobile trailer in and out of the ski cabin with zero drama.

 

[yizzung]

Chains also tear up the roads and that’s especially true of the ones used by the snow plows. Torn up roads just seems like the price of having roads that people want to, you know, use in the winter…

I’m very curious to see how Rivian does this winter and whether or not they add “snow mode”. I’m just now getting the feel for one pedal (summer) driving but the car breaking itself without, you know, applying the break pedal, seems like a bad thing.

 

[jwardell]

Bad news, apparently there are basically no Rivian snow tire options available anywhere, for any size.

I finally stopped in my local Nokian distributor, Williams tire, to ask if they could order the 275/50-21 Hakkas, and they said none are actually available, and they are not allowed to install anything below the weight rating anyway.
Another employee then walked in, seeing my Rivian out front. He said between his two stores here in VT and NH, he has had **24** Rivian customers ask for snow tires, and there is nothing he can do for any of us. He says the only tire that qualifies is for the 22", and there are only 20 of those tires in the whole country. Apparently the war in Ukraine has shut down a number of the factories that prevent them for making current stock, let alone developing new sizes. He also said the 21s have better siping than the 20" all terrains so may actually be better in the snow, but I know that's not good enough for me around here.
I might need to look into socks or chains instead, and drive incredibly carefully till there are hopefully more options next year.

 

[Dark-Fx]

That's such a stupid article.
The reasoning of "nobody needs studded tires every single day of winter so no one should use them" is just silly. Life is compromise.

I don't use studded tires, because most of my driving is in town or on the highway...and I leave my winter tires on past the March 30th cutoff for studded tires.

My sister lives out in the country and uses studded tires on every vehicle they own, despite most of their commuting being on paved highways.

I don't use studded tires because my state says they are only legal on roads where the studs won't touch the road surface.

 

[Hoo D. Hoo]

That was my plan, but rivian is not able to sell you wheels, with or without tires. Many of us have tried. And the stock off-road tires would not do well on icy roads.

Another issue is the 20's are a much smaller diameter tire, so the truck needs to be reprogrammed by service not only to accept the new TPMS but apparently all drive modes are tweaked for the different wheels, as well as range calculations.

They will no doubt figure it out eventually, but I'm running out of time.

Bummer. My plan had been to just buy after market 20s if Rivian won't sell them to me. Sounds like it may be more complicated than that.

Thankfully I'm in the mid-Atlantic, not Colorado, so I can wait for them to figure it out.

 

[jjswan33]

Bad news, apparently there are basically no Rivian snow tire options available anywhere, for any size.

Not sure what you mean. I think we all knew that options would be limited for the 21s. Also the 22s are probably limited by load rating but there appears to be plenty of options in an LT275 65 R20 that have have a load rating more than sufficient for the R1T, the speed rating may suffer but that is always typical of winter tires in my experience.

Or did you just mean no Nokian tire options due to supply issues caused by the war in Ukraine?

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