Several Concerns

[Casotakar]

Basic Concerns: 1) Location of Service Centers, 2)Charging (level 3) in and around or close proximity of Charleston SC & Myrtle Beach), 3) Battery degradation over life of vehicle, 4)Trade-in capabilities, 5)Long-term Partnership information promoting longevity of the company, 6) Battery disposal and cost for replacement after warranty, and last but not least, 7)will new battery technology be interchangeable with the current vehicle structure thereby increasing battery useful life and range??

By the way, these are questions I have with all the the EV's out there, not just Rivian. Would love to hear answers or guidance to those questions, if anyone has any best guesses.

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[ajdelange]

Basic Concerns: 1) Location of Service Centers,

There's Toyota service in any decent sized town in the US and Canada (including Myrtle Beach). This is not the case with Tesla and is not going to be the case with Rivian. Getting service is going to be, at best, different. We will have to see what Rivian eventually actually rolls out but there has been talk about rangers coming to your house or place of business and showing up at you house with a loaner on a flatbed if a ranger can't handle it. You are embarking on an adventure here and putting faith in a new manufacturer. Accept that there is some risk with this

2)Charging (level 3) in and around or close proximity of Charleston SC & Myrtle Beach),

I remember checking the sources for new Super Chargers around where I live while waiting for my first Tesla. But guess what? I never use them. I, as do most BEV owners, charge at home. It is much cheaper and much, much more convenient. What you do want to concern yourself with it the availability of charging on the way to and at the places you plan to travel to. If you don't know about them already get PlugShare and ABRP (A Better Route Planner).

3) Battery degradation over life of vehicle,

They have a good warranty. 70% after 7 years or something like that. ? This shouldn't be a concern unless you are sure you want to keep the car past warranty.

4)Trade-in capabilities,

I think people are going to like these vehicles. I, therefore, think they will hold their value. FWIW Tesla gave me BB wholesale on an X I traded in.

5)Long-term Partnership information promoting longevity of the company,

Not sure I understand this one. It is assumed that Rivian will go public shortly but that's just a rumor. The rumbles are that it will be a full up IPO as opposed to a SPAC which means there won't be any crumbs for us little guys.

6) Battery disposal and cost for replacement after warranty,

It's going to be rather dear. Plan to treat your battery with care and get rid of the truck before its warranty is expired.

7)will new battery technology be interchangeable with the current vehicle structure thereby increasing battery useful life and range?

If by this you mean you want to know whether a new battery techology discovered 3 years from now can be retrofitted I think the answer is a definite "No".

 

[Casotakar]

There's Toyota service in any decent sized town in the US and Canada (including Myrtle Beach). This is not the case with Tesla and is not going to be the case with Rivian. Getting service is going to be, at best, different. We will have to see what Rivian eventually actually rolls out but there has been talk about rangers coming to your house or place of business and showing up at you house with a loaner on a flatbed if a ranger can't handle it. You are embarking on an adventure here and putting faith in a new manufacturer. Accept that there is some risk with this

I remember checking the sources for new Super Chargers around where I live while waiting for my first Tesla. But guess what? I never use them. I, as do most BEV owners, charge at home. It is much cheaper and much, much more convenient. What you do want to concern yourself with it the availability of charging on the way to and at the places you plan to travel to. If you don't know about them already get PlugShare and ABRP (A Better Route Planner).



They have a good warranty. 70% after 7 years or something like that. ? This shouldn't be a concern unless you are sure you want to keep the car past warranty.



I think people are going to like these vehicles. I, therefore, think they will hold their value. FWIW Tesla gave me BB wholesale on an X I traded in.

Not sure I understand this one. It is assumed that Rivian will go public shortly but that's just a rumor. The rumbles are that it will be a full up IPO as opposed to a SPAC which means there won't be any crumbs for us little guys.


It's going to be rather dear. Plan to treat your battery with care and get rid of the truck before its warranty is expired.

If by this you mean you want to know whether a new battery techology discovered 3 years from now can be retrofitted I think the answer is a definite "No".

Wow. Thanks for the responses. Now I am more concerned about it than I was before. Selling it before the warranty may prove difficult because selling the Rivian or any other EV will be difficult since the issues I raised will become more prevalent in the next 2 - 4 years. Given your analysis I would be less likely to buy a used EV.

 

[ajdelange]

I'm not sure what you mean here. I think the curve is pushing over some but the technology is still advancing pretty fast and thus technological obsolescence is going to be a reality for a while. As I said Tesla is willing to offer BB wholesale and there seems to be quite a healthy market for used Teslas. You might want to check this out.

 

[guernsej]

I'm trusting Rivian has a plan to recycle and swap packs at end of life (given their second life program) but I'm also not counting on it holding resale value if that assumption proves untrue.

If I get over 10 years and 150k miles above 80% performance before retiring it to a recycling center I'll be satisfied.

 

[Casotakar]

I'm not sure what you mean here. I think the curve is pushing over some but the technology is still advancing pretty fast and thus technological obsolescence is going to be a reality for a while. As I said Tesla is willing to offer BB wholesale and there seems to be quite a healthy market for used Teslas. You might want to check this out.

Thanks !

 

[Casotakar]

I'm trusting Rivian has a plan to recycle and swap packs at end of life (given their second life program) but I'm also not counting on it holding resale value if that assumption proves untrue.

If I get over 10 years and 150k miles above 80% performance before retiring it to a recycling center I'll be satisfied.

I won't buy it without a plan by Rivian is in place. My plan was to keep this for quite awhile and then resell it. If there is no residual value then it's not worth buying.

 

[jimcgov3]

1) Location of Service Centers

To @ajdelange's point, it took Ford, Dodge, and GM over 100 years to get the service centers in the locations they are in. Tesla has 120 Service Centers as of 30 October 2020, w/ plans for 52 more this year. Those 120 took Tesla over 9 years. Rivian will get there with time.

2)Charging (level 3) in and around or close proximity of Charleston SC & Myrtle Beach),

Level 3 chargers in your local area are just things for you to look at. You will only use them in a pinch after a road trip home when you just can't make it or you may not have power in your neighborhood and need a charge. Other than that, you will charge at home 90% of the time and only charge at L3 when traveling on a cross-country road trip. Anything w/i a 200 roundtrip could easily be completed and charged back at home overnight w/ a 48A L2 EVSE.

3) Battery degradation over life of vehicle,

Any degradation w/i their warranty is acceptable. Only charge at L3 when REQUIRED. L2 charge to Rivian's recommendation and you will get ALL the miles you need.

4)Trade-in capabilities,

There will be no issue trading in a Rivian. There will be demand for them for quite some time.

5)Long-term Partnership information promoting longevity of the company,

Rivian will be around for quite some time. Their funding and products will keep them relevant and profitable for yours to come.

6) Battery disposal and cost for replacement after warranty, and last but not least,

Google the Honnold Foundation. Also, check out the June 2019 Rivian Denver. In the link below it states, "CEO RJ Scaringe says that Rivian has “really focused a lot of energy on” the idea of energy storage. In how it engineers battery systems for the vehicle, it’s already planning and designing for those batteries, after the vehicle, to be connected to a second-life use, in “various types of grid storage.” https://www.greencarreports.com/new...eady-for-harsh-environments-and-a-second-life. As far as replacement, Rivian is charging $222/kWh...at least that was the dollar amount difference between the Large and Max packs. We no longer know how large the battery packs are but based on the "original" 135kWh pack, it will cost you an estimated $30,000 to replace that battery at current pricing. Those prices are falling though so who knows what 2029 or 2030 will hold once the 8-year battery warranty expires or sooner if you burn through all 175,000 miles.

7)will new battery technology be interchangeable with the current vehicle structure thereby increasing battery useful life and range

Rivian has stated previously that you will not be able to "upgrade" to a larger pack so buy the size pack you desire most. They have also stated that you will not be able to swap for any new tech. You are currently getting the best they are currently capable of. Solid-state batteries are the future and they are years away.

I say all this but if you can't get past point 1 this isn't the EV for you.

Best of luck to you with your decision.

 

[godfodder0901]

I won't buy it without a plan by Rivian is in place. My plan was to keep this for quite awhile and then resell it. If there is no residual value then it's not worth buying.

They don't/won't have a plan to swap/upgrade the pack and keep the truck running. They do/will have a plan for the second life of the batteries.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Aftermarket EV battery repair/replacement is already a thing. No reason to think the industry won’t adapt to include Rivian. Lithium cells are lithium cells, after all…. The only difference is the service procedure to pull the battery out and open the pack/modules.

 

[godfodder0901]

Aftermarket EV battery repair/replacement is already a thing. No reason to think the industry won’t adapt to include Rivian. Lithium cells are lithium cells, after all…. The only difference is the service procedure to pull the battery out and open the pack/modules.

Sure, anything is possible. Official support from Rivian, however, isn't likely.

 

[Casotakar]

Sure, anything is possible. Official support from Rivian, however, isn't likely.

After reading these threads it appears there is no EV that currently can replace or upgrade the battery packs when they die. Making any EV that only has a useful life of 0. after the batteries go bad in 8 -10 years makes no sense to me. This is not for me, at least until they come up with a viable alternative to just trashing the car or trade it in after 3 or 4 years before the warranty is up. I would never buy a used car that will only last another 5 - 7 years after purchase, even with repairs. That's insane.

 

[ajdelange]

Whoa there. No one said you can't buy, for example, a used Tesla and replace the battery in it. We are simply saying that Tesla won't replace the battery in your old Model S with the battery that goes in the new Model S plaid. They will replace it with the battery that fits (electrically, mechanically and software wise) the car you have.

I do get the impression that BEV may not be for you. In undertaking to own and operate a BEV you have to recognize that this is disruptive technology and though the associated risks are many fewer than those who started buying these cars 10 years ago faced there are still risks.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

After reading these threads it appears there is no EV that currently can replace or upgrade the battery packs when they die. Making any EV that only has a useful life of 0. after the batteries go bad in 8 -10 years makes no sense to me. This is not for me, at least until they come up with a viable alternative to just trashing the car or trade it in after 3 or 4 years before the warranty is up. I would never buy a used car that will only last another 5 - 7 years after purchase, even with repairs. That's insane.

Ow, I just hurt myself with how violently my eyes rolled!

Did you seriously just say that the "useful life" of ANY EV is "0"??

That must be the most over-dramaticized statement I've seen in a looooong time.

There are Millions of people in their Teslas/Bolts/Leafs that are laughing at you.

 

[Autolycus]

Ow, I just hurt myself with how violently my eyes rolled!

Did you seriously just say that the "useful life" of ANY EV is "0"??

That must be the most over-dramaticized statement I've seen in a looooong time.

There are Millions of people in their Teslas/Bolts/Leafs that are laughing at you.

It's not quite that histrionic, but it's pretty histrionic. I think they were saying the useful life is 8-10, when the battery is shot and the whole car must be scrapped. That's an absurd notion because most EVs won't be shot after 8-10 years (which for average drivers in the US is 100-130k miles). There's lots of data on Tesla battery depletion in that mileage range. Average depletion is 10-15% after 150-200k miles. That's still a very usable car for most people! For a Rivian, that's still a usable range of >250 miles, which is better than most models of EV being sold today. I believe only the LR Teslas are beating that noticeably. (plus F150 Lightning, Rivian and Lucid when they come to market)

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