Scaringe: Autonomy revenues within a year + R2 unveiling likely in Q1 2024

[JGard18]

There was mention of AR. I wonder if they'd implement something like what BMW does on the iX? That AR navigation feature is slick. It'll pop up the front camera view on your driver display and overlay directions on the view of the street ahead. I'd maybe pay a bit for that. As for the autonomous features, I'm happy to never pay for those, as I enjoy driving too much.

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[Jabbahop]

I’d pay something if there was NEVER phantom braking. Until then, not interested.

 

[JamboF4]

How are the Rivian proposed features similar / different that what Tesla has already begun?

 

[BumblebeeCA]

The Driver+ feature is terrible. My 2017 Volvo XC90 had a more advanced adaptive cruise control. The fact that Driver+ bails on you without adequate notice on reasonable highway curves makes it not only unusable - it’s straight up dangerous.

 

[rraj2k81]

It’s probably something like Tesla’s basic autopilot (Driver+) v Tesla’s enhanced autopilot (Driver+ enhanced)

As some one who paid for Enhanced Autopilot I can say it's absolute garbage. I only paid for it so I can have Auto Lane changes, and all the others were bonuses.

But after using it for a little over an year, I would say navigate on AP, Summon and Smart Summon are pretty much snake oil products, which barely works.

Heck the last time I used smart summon, the car ignored every single obstacle in its way and almost ran into an electricity pole and the other time ran over a concrete barrier and almost drove into a ditch after driving straight across a parking lot missing all lane markings.

All I want Rivian to focus on is a good ADAS system that is a combination of,
Adaptive Cruise + Active Lane Centering + Auto Lane Changes and that works consistently on all roads.

 

[SolrPower]

I've been curious about this the entire time. For those of us who don't want to use the "autonomous" features, will be still have to pay for them? Is the function going behind a paywall like some of the other options?

Probably the same structure as Ford Bluecruise. Ford charges $800 annual or $75 per month. I have it as a year trial in my F150 Limited. Definitely will not be paying extra for the option afterwards to Ford or Rivian.

 

[Jumacao]

I wonder if any of the people here who refuse to use driver assistance features have ever used AP or something similar - or if their experience is limited to what they see in the media.

I rented a Model S about a year back and tried FSD. I was amazed / scared by how good it was. With just that weekend of use, I could see how the robot apocalypse will happen: we'll just let them take over because we'll realize the robots are just as good as we are at most things.

 

[COdogman]

Probably the same structure as Ford Bluecruise. Ford charges $800 annual or $75 per month. I have it as a year trial in my F150 Limited. Definitely will not be paying extra for the option afterwards to Ford or Rivian.

If it costs that much I don't think I would pay for it either. I don't think I spend enough time driving the places it would be useful.

 

[DuoRivians]

1. Driver+ works well when available
2. Let’s see what Rivian offers when autonomy becomes available
3. It won’t be something you’re forced into.

In the meantime, please continue with the complaining

 

[AllInev]

It’s probably something like Tesla’s basic autopilot (Driver+) v Tesla’s enhanced autopilot (Driver+ enhanced)

If it’s a service that I can pay on a monthly basis, I’ll probably try it for a few months. However, I expect I’ll be disappointed with it and cancel.

 

[beyondgravity]

I hope it comes soon and I hate driving even with R1S. As a human, we have better things to do than just driving.

 

[SANZC02]

I hope it comes soon and I hate driving even with R1S. As a human, we have better things to do than just driving.

Just for reference Rivian has stated they have no current plans to go to fully autonomous driving. They are targeting level 3 which still requires driver intervention.

 

[pricedm]

I will definitely give it try before it becomes something I might have to pay for. I love the idea of it, but I still don't trust the other lunatics on the road enough to let the truck take over. Who knows - I might like it.

I think you will. I just drove 400 miles from Cortez, CO thru Moab to Denver. One intervention in my Tesla on FSD. Its a different mindset to monitor the car first, then the road/other traffic versus primary focus on "everything" in a traditionally controlled vehicle. Significanlty less strees having the car manage things like speed limit changes, road curves, passing slower traffic/lane changes.

I'm looking forward to Rivian adding more autonomous capabilities to the R1 family.

 

[usofrob]

I found AP1 when I sold my 2015 Model S in 2019, it was better than my Model 3 with "FSD Beta" has ever been in terms of my enjoyment and use of it. It had less features, but the features worked more reliably. I find myself not even using the traffic aware cruise control because of phantom braking and their poor camera based rain sensor turning on my wipers when it's not raining. The FSD Beta is really impressive, but it's just not good enough to use it if I want to relax, as it takes more work than just driving. And now that the TACC is all vision based it's never gotten as reliable as Tesla AP 1.

Until the OEM can show normal car industry level of reliability, I won't be paying for that again. I haven't tried any other OEM's implementation to compare. My guess is that they wouldn't release something as buggy as the current FSD Beta. The more I watch my car, the less confident I am in cars actually getting good at driving, because there are just so many things out there that require general understanding of the situation, that the current AI can't handle.

I should add, that the Tesla auto pilot does work reasonably well on the freeway that I do still use it there. I just don't find myself on freeways as much recently. So, it's not been in my current thoughts.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

I found AP1 when I sold my 2015 Model S in 2019, it was better than my Model 3 with "FSD Beta" has ever been in terms of my enjoyment and use of it. It had less features, but the features worked more reliably. I find myself not even using the traffic aware cruise control because of phantom braking and their poor camera based rain sensor turning on my wipers when it's not raining. The FSD Beta is really impressive, but it's just not good enough to use it if I want to relax, as it takes more work than just driving. And now that the TACC is all vision based it's never gotten as reliable as Tesla AP 1.

Until the OEM can show normal car industry level of reliability, I won't be paying for that again. I haven't tried any other OEM's implementation to compare. My guess is that they wouldn't release something as buggy as the current FSD Beta. The more I watch my car, the less confident I am in cars actually getting good at driving, because there are just so many things out there that require general understanding of the situation, that the current AI can't handle.

I should add, that the Tesla auto pilot does work reasonably well on the freeway that I do still use it there. I just don't find myself on freeways as much recently. So, it's not been in my current thoughts.

My experience was fairly similar.

With my 2015 Model S I actually stopped using AP because I felt like it was good enough that I started to lose situational awareness. So I opted to mostly use Adaptive Cruise Control only most of the time. Sure there were times I used AP, but not all that often unless it was raining at night as that's when it was useful.

With my 2018 Model 3 it took a long time for AP to even begin to match the performance of what I had with the Model S. I had high hopes for it because I got it with EAP, and with FSD. I figured EAP had a chance of being good, but it never worked that well. I wanted it to do auto lane changes according to nav in a way that made sense, but it would often do nonsensical lane changes. So I stopped using Navigate on Autopilot, and would initiate the autolane changes myself. My primary complaints tended to be frustrations with it re-centering during merge lanes (in the right lane) which made me look like an idiot, and it would stop working in the rain.

With the Rivian I had hopes that it would be a hands free system with lane change assist, but that never came to fruition. Instead its a fairly decent adaptive cruise control system with a very finicky Lane steering system. It works well enough to use it when available, but I haven't developed any unconscious trust in it like I did with my Tesla. It also doesn't work all that well in the rain. At least it didn't last winter. We'll see how it does this winter.

I am curious about the AR functionality as I think that's one area where developments could be made to improve human awareness which improves safety.

personally I think all this L2 (adaptive cruise control + lane steering) stuff is a road to nowhere. It's limited by the humans ability to supervise the system. To really be useful it needs to be L3/L4,

If MB increased the max speed of their L3 traffic assist system it could start to become interesting. I could see paying $2000 for 3 years of that. Especially since my vacation house is 4 hours away, and that's a lot of boring freeway driving.

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