SANZC02

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Great analogy! When I'm paying for a GC to remodel or build me a house and he chooses to mow my lawn instead of fixing the plumbing, yes it would frustrate me. Especially if he promised that I could move in months ago, yet I can't because I don't have working plumbing...AND then he goes on and on about how nice the lawn is...but it doesn't matter because I can't move in. But if he focused on the plumbing, at least I could move in, and he could get to the lawn later. The lawn (camp kitchen) doesn't directly impact the timing of when I can move in or even directly impact the house itself (R1T). The lawn might make the house look better and might be needed or wanted overall, but it isn't a critical path for delivery.
There is a reason landscaping is the very last thing someone completes when building a house.

I would fire any GC that delayed my move in date and then mowed my lawn and went into more detail about the lawn (because that is the only thing he was able to do on time) than the plumbing, electric, foundation, etc.. And then told me more details about the foundation and plumbing would come, but meanwhile take a look at how nice the lawn looks!
You can fire Rivian, just click the cancel button, problem solved.

I am just really surprised at how worked up everyone is getting over these delays. There are so many real issues in the world these days that delays on getting a vehicle seems so low on the list of things to get worked up over.





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kanundrum

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You can fire Rivian, just click the cancel button, problem solved.

I am just really surprised at how worked up everyone is getting over these delays. There are so many real issues in the world these days that delays on getting a vehicle seems so low on the list of things to get worked up over.

What else are we going to do? Actually be productive and do our day jobs? Gross!
 

CommodoreAmiga

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I'm pretty sure Jeep made an entirely new drivetrain for the 4xe. Technically it looks pretty neat and should allow for some decent offroad control. There's probably some sharing of actual battery components, but getting power to the wheels is pretty unique in the 4xe.
Not really. It's possibly the most conventional of all the hybrids being sold, today. It certainly keeps most of the legacy components.

https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/how-does-the-new-jeep-wrangler-4xe-drivetrain-work
 

hed

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You can fire Rivian, just click the cancel button, problem solved.

I am just really surprised at how worked up everyone is getting over these delays. There are so many real issues in the world these days that delays on getting a vehicle seems so low on the list of things to get worked up over.
If you think this is crazy, try running a fine dining restaurant, this is nothing compared to how some people behave when their food is not the right temp, or there's not enough ice in the glass, or you are out of a hard to source, seasonal product....lol.

Rvian's issue is lack of proactive communication, at least for me, they even admitted they need to do better. We'll see how it plays out. I am pulling for them and hope they can make good on the expectations they've set.
 

SeaGeo

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Not really. It's possibly the most conventional of all the hybrids being sold, today. It certainly keeps most of the legacy components.

https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/how-does-the-new-jeep-wrangler-4xe-drivetrain-work
Totally different definition of conventional here. Conventional in the sense that all power goes through a traditional transmission and transfer case? Yes. But that's not how PHEVs do it usually, which makes for some interesting potential behavior (pushing EV torque through your transfer case for example).

Most PHEV's are either an 4WD variant where the electric ICE don't all connect to all four wheels (my xc60 T8 for example, it's FWD ICE + RWD EV = AWD), or like the Pacifica, just FWD. The Rav4 Prime shoves a motor between the rear wheels, so no transfer case needed It's basically a front wheel drive PHEV + RWD EV again. I can't find where I saw the (quite good) discussion on it, but if memory serves me right (C&D I just found seems to confirm this), the 4Xe pushes both the ICE and EV power through the transmission and transfer case. So you have engine-->motor-->transmission-->transfer case.

Here's a brief explanation of it from C&D:
The 4xe (pronounced "four by E") sandwiches a 270-hp turbocharged inline-four between a 44-hp motor connected through the accessory belt at the front and a 134-hp motor taking the place of the transmission's torque converter at the back. The motors draw power from a roughly 14.0-kWh lithium-ion battery stashed under the rear seats. Whether the 4xe is running in Electric mode or as a hybrid, torque is routed to the wheels through an eight-speed automatic transmission and a transfer case that offers rear-wheel drive, all-wheel drive (4WD Auto), and high- or low-range four-wheel drive for the off-road crowd.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...rangler-unlimited-rubicon-4xe-by-the-numbers/
 

CommodoreAmiga

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Totally different definition of conventional here. Conventional in the sense that all power goes through a traditional transmission and transfer case? Yes. But that's not how PHEVs do it usually, which makes for some interesting potential behavior (pushing EV torque through your transfer case for example).

Most PHEV's are either an 4WD variant where the electric ICE don't all connect to all four wheels (my xc60 T8 for example, it's FWD ICE + RWD EV = AWD), or like the Pacifica, just FWD. The Rav4 Prime shoves a motor between the rear wheels, so no transfer case needed It's basically a front wheel drive PHEV + RWD EV again. I can't find where I saw the (quite good) discussion on it, but if memory serves me right (C&D I just found seems to confirm this), the 4Xe pushes both the ICE and EV power through the transmission and transfer case. So you have engine-->motor-->transmission-->transfer case.

Here's a brief explanation of it from C&D:
The 4xe (pronounced "four by E") sandwiches a 270-hp turbocharged inline-four between a 44-hp motor connected through the accessory belt at the front and a 134-hp motor taking the place of the transmission's torque converter at the back. The motors draw power from a roughly 14.0-kWh lithium-ion battery stashed under the rear seats. Whether the 4xe is running in Electric mode or as a hybrid, torque is routed to the wheels through an eight-speed automatic transmission and a transfer case that offers rear-wheel drive, all-wheel drive (4WD Auto), and high- or low-range four-wheel drive for the off-road crowd.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...rangler-unlimited-rubicon-4xe-by-the-numbers/
I think you just used a lot of words to agree with me.

Unlike most other hybrids, Jeep uses a legacy/conventional approach. They don't try to actually engineer an EV platform, but instead take a conventional Jeep a stick some electric motors on with bubble gum.
 

SeaGeo

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I think you just used a lot of words to agree with me.

Unlike most other hybrids, Jeep uses a legacy/conventional approach. They don't try to actually engineer an EV platform, but instead take a conventional Jeep a stick some electric motors on with bubble gum.
Lol, sort of. Doing this approach complicates things a lot more. Hence what I'd call a "conventional" PHEV approach is keeping them separate.

BUT it's cool because it should allow things like putting your EV power into 4low in concert with the ICE. 😁
 

paariv

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Great analogy! When I'm paying for a GC to remodel or build me a house and he chooses to mow my lawn instead of fixing the plumbing, yes it would frustrate me. Especially if he promised that I could move in months ago, yet I can't because I don't have working plumbing...AND then he goes on and on about how nice the lawn is...but it doesn't matter because I can't move in. But if he focused on the plumbing, at least I could move in, and he could get to the lawn later. The lawn (camp kitchen) doesn't directly impact the timing of when I can move in or even directly impact the house itself (R1T). The lawn might make the house look better and might be needed or wanted overall, but it isn't a critical path for delivery.
There is a reason landscaping is the very last thing someone completes when building a house.

I would fire any GC that delayed my move in date and then mowed my lawn and went into more detail about the lawn (because that is the only thing he was able to do on time) than the plumbing, electric, foundation, etc.. And then told me more details about the foundation and plumbing would come, but meanwhile take a look at how nice the lawn looks!
You might want to chill out about this - here and on Reddit. There is no way the camp kitchen has had any impact on delivery dates. None.

It's something fun, helps them market the truck, and is something they can talk about while they sort out the big supply chain and delivery issues that are largely out of control. Guarantee that nobody crucial to truck development is on that project.

As to this analogy, you're assuming the GC is mowing your lawn when he could be working on something else. That's just not the case here.
 

Jarico75

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Great analogy! When I'm paying for a GC to remodel or build me a house and he chooses to mow my lawn instead of fixing the plumbing, yes it would frustrate me. Especially if he promised that I could move in months ago, yet I can't because I don't have working plumbing...AND then he goes on and on about how nice the lawn is...but it doesn't matter because I can't move in. But if he focused on the plumbing, at least I could move in, and he could get to the lawn later. The lawn (camp kitchen) doesn't directly impact the timing of when I can move in or even directly impact the house itself (R1T). The lawn might make the house look better and might be needed or wanted overall, but it isn't a critical path for delivery.
There is a reason landscaping is the very last thing someone completes when building a house.

I would fire any GC that delayed my move in date and then mowed my lawn and went into more detail about the lawn (because that is the only thing he was able to do on time) than the plumbing, electric, foundation, etc.. And then told me more details about the foundation and plumbing would come, but meanwhile take a look at how nice the lawn looks!
To continue with your GC analogy.......... If the plumber wasn't available because parts were on back order, but the GC hired a landscaper to mow the lawn to show you he is still engaged........... You wouldn't fire your GC nor are you going to cancel your order with Rivian.
 

GHuff

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To continue with your GC analogy.......... If the plumber wasn't available because parts were on back order, but the GC hired a landscaper to mow the lawn to show you he is still engaged........... You wouldn't fire your GC nor are you going to cancel your order with Rivian.
There are so many ways I can think of that would show how the GC is in the wrong in this made up scenario. But every one of them includes me being mad the GC and telling him to focus on getting me in the damn house and not on the lawn. FFS, I can mow the lawn myself. I can't build a house. (Just like a can buy my own camping equipment on my own)
 

GHuff

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You might want to chill out about this - here and on Reddit. There is no way the camp kitchen has had any impact on delivery dates. None.

It's something fun, helps them market the truck, and is something they can talk about while they sort out the big supply chain and delivery issues that are largely out of control. Guarantee that nobody crucial to truck development is on that project.

As to this analogy, you're assuming the GC is mowing your lawn when he could be working on something else. That's just not the case here.
If you have the resources to hire a team to develop and build a pet project like the camp kitchen, why not try to develop and build something more useful and practical that gets used more than 4 times a year? Like maybe a power tailgate, monochromatic roof, front-gate, removeable roof, a working phone app, after market bumpers or winches, foot step in the rear bumper, simply making a video of the interior of the vehicle, making a video of the infotainment system, adding an interior work surface (like F150), 2-way power (like Lightning), weekly email updates, creating more service centers, putting on events and demos, etc. The list of things that 99% of customers would find more useful and important than a $5,000 camp kitchen with string lights, soup lade, and stainless steel coffee grinder is endless.
To allocate resources to something that (I'm going to guess here) maybe 5% of Rivian customers purchase is bad business. And when you deliver on that, but fail to deliver on many things that impact 100% of customers, it's infuriating.


We all agree that the camp kitchen isn't "necessary". That's not up for debate. It's an optional add on. Well Rivian paid people to design and build it. That's not cheap. Several hundred thousand dollars at least, in just salaries (with taxes and benefits). You can build out a VERY sophisticated app for $500,000. Yet, we don't have an app. From what I've found, it hasn't even been submitted to the app store for approval. Even if it is more than $500,000 for the app, you can hire two full time programmers instead of some "lead designer" that goes camping on the weekend and doesn't realize the stove and sink should face the tailgate.
 

paariv

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If you have the resources to hire a team to develop and build a pet project like the camp kitchen, why not try to develop and build something more useful and practical that gets used more than 4 times a year? Like maybe a power tailgate, monochromatic roof, front-gate, removeable roof, a working phone app, after market bumpers or winches, foot step in the rear bumper, simply making a video of the interior of the vehicle, making a video of the infotainment system, adding an interior work surface (like F150), 2-way power (like Lightning), weekly email updates, creating more service centers, putting on events and demos, etc. The list of things that 99% of customers would find more useful and important than a $5,000 camp kitchen with string lights, soup lade, and stainless steel coffee grinder is endless.
To allocate resources to something that (I'm going to guess here) maybe 5% of Rivian customers purchase is bad business. And when you deliver on that, but fail to deliver on many things that impact 100% of customers, it's infuriating.


We all agree that the camp kitchen isn't "necessary". That's not up for debate. It's an optional add on. Well Rivian paid people to design and build it. That's not cheap. Several hundred thousand dollars at least, in just salaries (with taxes and benefits). You can build out a VERY sophisticated app for $500,000. Yet, we don't have an app. From what I've found, it hasn't even been submitted to the app store for approval. Even if it is more than $500,000 for the app, you can hire two full time programmers instead of some "lead designer" that goes camping on the weekend and doesn't realize the stove and sink should face the tailgate.
What I think every time I see a post from you on this:
B63AFD45-E409-477B-B668-78CF56F3148E.jpeg
 

MIG

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If you have the resources to hire a team to develop and build a pet project like the camp kitchen, why not try to develop and build something more useful and practical that gets used more than 4 times a year? Like maybe a power tailgate, monochromatic roof, front-gate, removeable roof, a working phone app, after market bumpers or winches, foot step in the rear bumper, simply making a video of the interior of the vehicle, making a video of the infotainment system, adding an interior work surface (like F150), 2-way power (like Lightning), weekly email updates, creating more service centers, putting on events and demos, etc. The list of things that 99% of customers would find more useful and important than a $5,000 camp kitchen with string lights, soup lade, and stainless steel coffee grinder is endless.
To allocate resources to something that (I'm going to guess here) maybe 5% of Rivian customers purchase is bad business. And when you deliver on that, but fail to deliver on many things that impact 100% of customers, it's infuriating.


We all agree that the camp kitchen isn't "necessary". That's not up for debate. It's an optional add on. Well Rivian paid people to design and build it. That's not cheap. Several hundred thousand dollars at least, in just salaries (with taxes and benefits). You can build out a VERY sophisticated app for $500,000. Yet, we don't have an app. From what I've found, it hasn't even been submitted to the app store for approval. Even if it is more than $500,000 for the app, you can hire two full time programmers instead of some "lead designer" that goes camping on the weekend and doesn't realize the stove and sink should face the tailgate.
Great news. I just reached out to Rivian and apparently the camp kitchen team will turn to app development in a few weeks, right after they complete the color selections for the camp kitchen recipe book. Exciting!
 

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