RJ quote: more sensors (including radar & lidar) is a way to catch up to Tesla's camera-only autonomous driving system

[pamalabama]

So good, and yet still Level 2.

FSD is technically level 4. The SAE J0316 document makes it very clear that a system with level 4 design intentions is considered level 4, regardless of commercial release or whether there is a safety driver required to supervise and intervene as necessary.

Levels are self assigned and hold very little meaning.

Tesla "claims" level 2 because you need approval to test a level 4 system. Just use a tesla now. With the press of a button it can leave your garage (including auto open/close garage door) and take you to your destination and park. When the new parking option comes with the next release, it will be possible to go months at a time without touching the steering wheel or pedals.

FSD does extremely hard things well (like driving in heavy rain, dense NYC traffic, white, snow covered roads with no lane markings visible), but does some relatively easy things not well like reacting to a school zone sign.

I suspect tesla has a solution for the easy problems and then FSD would show a rapid improvement to match how well FSD drives otherwise.

There have been multiple patents related to sign recognition that are almost expired. One of the reason tesla open sourced their patents is because they own a lot of important patents that other EV makers would want to use. The idea being that they can more freely use other car making patents. But autonomous vehicle patents are something different.

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[pamalabama]

Good explanation. Tesla has said they are nowhere near the processing limits of their HW4 computer yet though, so I think we have a while for that. Rivian might be closer if they also start adding inputs from additional sensors and radars thst have to be simultaneously processed along with video data. I think the real limiting factor is money and training - Rivian has nowhere near the data to train on, or the money to build a data center even if they did. We're talking many billions of dollars, not to mention the talent they would need to attract from companies like Tesla, Waymo and others to make it work. That talent is very expensive as well.

yes that's correct. We want to see how tesla solves sign reading. I wonder if the 3x model scaling will enable the rest of the sign recognition that tesla has had problems with

 

[SANZC02]

FSD is technically level 4. The SAE J0316 document makes it very clear that a system with level 4 design intentions is considered level 4, regardless of commercial release or whether there is a safety driver required to supervise and intervene as necessary.

Levels are self assigned and hold very little meaning.

Tesla "claims" level 2 because you need approval to test a level 4 system. Just use a tesla now. With the press of a button it can leave your garage (including auto open/close garage door) and take you to your destination and park. When the new parking option comes with the next release, it will be possible to go months at a time without touching the steering wheel or pedals.

FSD does extremely hard things well (like driving in heavy rain, dense NYC traffic, white, snow covered roads with no lane markings visible), but does some relatively easy things not well like reacting to a school zone sign.

I suspect tesla has a solution for the easy problems and then FSD would show a rapid improvement to match how well FSD drives otherwise.

There have been multiple patents related to sign recognition that are almost expired. One of the reason tesla open sourced their patents is because they own a lot of important patents that other EV makers would want to use. The idea being that they can more freely use other car making patents. But autonomous vehicle patents are something different.

I call BS on this, if FSD was level 4 they would call it level 4.

If they need to call it level to for liability reasons it is because it is level 2.

 

[pamalabama]

I call BS on this, if FSD was level 4 they would call it level 4.

If they need to call it level to for liability reasons it is because it is level 2.

Because consumers can't have access to a level 4 software and freely test anywhere.

there's a lot of regulation around level 4

If elon lobbies to change the laws then they will call it level 4 since it is good advertising

Tesla is abusing a loophole where they can claim their system is level 2 forever until the point it has reached the ability that they can provide proof that it can be classified as level 4 and drive unsupervised

Why do you think it took tesla so long to implement hands free FSD? They have been riding on thin ice for a long time and treading waters nobody has before

 

[elektrode]

Rivian said Thursday it plans to launch a hands-off version of its driver assistance system for highway driving “in a few weeks,”

Gen1 straight shafted. At least I got pre-price hike.

 

[Redline]

Seems like we got what we paid for...

 

[elektrode]

Seems like we got what we paid for...

Retrospectively, by virtue of changing product naming, sure.

Getting what was advertised when I bought it? Not so much.

 

[TexasBob]

FSD is technically level 4. The SAE J0316 document makes it very clear that a system with level 4 design intentions is considered level 4, regardless of commercial release or whether there is a safety driver required to supervise and intervene as necessary.

"The levels apply to the driving automation feature(s) that are engaged in any given instance of on-road operation of an equipped vehicle. As such, although a given vehicle may be equipped with a driving automation system that is capable of delivering multiple driving automation features that perform at different levels, the level of driving automation exhibited in any given instance is determined by the feature(s) that are engaged."

https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j3016_202104/

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