RJ quote: more sensors (including radar & lidar) is a way to catch up to Tesla's camera-only autonomous driving system

[Electric Rivilution]

RJ quote from a few days ago:

“As competition in this space evolves, I think you are going to see [automakers] with more sensors,” Scaringe said at Rivian’s showroom here in late January. “One of the areas where we are different than Tesla — we’ve put more sensors in the vehicle, recognizing that is a way to catch up to what they’ve built using a camera-only system.”

“Gen one is going to get slightly better over time,” Scaringe said regarding driver assistance. “Gen two is going to be wildly better a year from now versus what it is today because of how the system is built.”

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[bfilippo]

RJ quote from a few days ago:

“As competition in this space evolves, I think you are going to see [automakers] with more sensors,” Scaringe said at Rivian’s showroom here in late January. “One of the areas where we are different than Tesla — we’ve put more sensors in the vehicle, recognizing that is a way to catch up to what they’ve built using a camera-only system.”

“Gen one is going to get slightly better over time,” Scaringe said regarding driver assistance. “Gen two is going to be wildly better a year from now versus what it is today because of how the system is built.”

While I am obviously cautiously optimistic, this last line is why I decided on a Gen2 over Gen1 a few months back for my R1T. I hope he's not full of it.

 

[godfodder0901]

While I am obviously cautiously optimistic, this last line is why I decided on a Gen2 over Gen1 a few months back for my R1T. I hope he's not full of it.

Don't hold your breath, he (and Rivian) doesn't have a great track record in this department...

 

[captainjp]

Don't hold your breath, he (and Rivian) doesn't have a great track record in this department...

lol. Another bitter Gen 1 owner feeling abandoned…

 

[carsly]

He's not wrong. Tesla had radar and ultrasonic sensors in all their vehicles - and then removed them. My 2021 Model S had both ultrasonic sensors (really best for parking) and radar (longer range driving) but the radar was unplugged at a service visit as the software no longer relied on the input.

Whether it's radar, LIDAR or some combo having that topographical sensory input, along with ground truthing/pre-mapping, is a good way to plug a limited visual reference model. That additional sensor data can also be used for ground truthing unmapped roads even if it's not in autonomous mode. That's how you start to close the data gap.

The practical problem is Rivian has a very limited fleet size. 100K R1's isn't enough data being generated, regardless of sensor arrays, vs. 6M+ Teslas. So there is still a data ingestion gap that actually widens every single day. Maybe embedding Rivian sensor arrays in VW next-gen EV's helps close the gap, but you're still looking at a decade before there are enough Rivian-inside vehicles feeding data back to start making a meaningful dent.

However, all is not lost.

A clever set of engineers can use simulations built from limited real-world data inputs to accelerate learning. This is where Tesla's investments in computing infrastructure for modeling may push them way ahead - or not due to a visual-first approach. If you've read the recent FSD release notes, Tesla is starting to incorporate a second sensory input - sound - initially to help identify emergency vehicles with sirens on but they could complement vision with sound (hello Doppler effect) to create faux-radar. Frankly, it would be easier with regular radar, but what do I know.

Back to Rivian, jam all the sensors, sure. But it's not enough.

 

[SwampNut]

Man, what an interesting time. We have a known lying weasel who can't be believed on anything, saying that more sensors makes things worse. Some of his explanations makes sense though. And his stuff is vastly ahead of Rivian, but also five+ years behind on his promises (lies).

On the other hand we have someone who has no way to catch up, claiming he found a way to catch up. After the absolute bald-faced lie Wassym told about CarPlay, I don't believe one word of this from Rivian.

 

[SadHill]

We are just at the infant stage of autonomous driving. Everything is going to take time. If you are buying a car today thinking it will do level 4 you are wrong. Tesla may get to level 3 soon and perhaps Rivian next year but it will take a decade to get to the next step.
the CEO’s are trying and want to get to that stage but you must know going into buying anything that says “it is coming later” that you may not get it at all. If you want it then you need to buy a vehicle that has it now.
People like to bitch about the negatives. How about we look at the glass is half full and look at the positives. Takes less muscles to smile than it does to frown!

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

IMO, the Holy Grail for autonomous driving will be when a critical mass of vehicles are enabled with software that allows them to communicate with each other. That would require a universal protocol for communications which doesn't exist yet, so we're not talking near future.

Until then, all systems will be purely reactive and therefor susceptible to the same issues that affect human drivers.

 

[R1TandMe]

You know this might all be great but I like to drive my cars. If I want to ride in and not drive I’ll get a Rolls or Bentley.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Can I get a discount for opting out of these systems entirely?

 

[SwampNut]

Tesla may get to level 3 soon and perhaps Rivian next year but it will take a decade to get to the next step.

So you've never seen a Waymo?

That would require a universal protocol for communications which doesn't exist yet

V2V and V2I not only exists, it's been in use for years in limited numbers. We just need to get more manufacturers to use it.

 

[SadHill]

Waymo is private. You can’t buy one and park it in your driveway

 

[ThirteenElectrics]

This is an intelligent statement. You need real sensors for autonomy. Now maybe they’ll add a back a cheap 12V outlet in the frunk while they’re adding all these super expensive sensors.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

“It’s going to be way better in a year.”

Can we stop with these statements? Vague statements with no specific goals and no hope that people stick to timelines annoys people…

 

[SwampNut]

Waymo is private. You can’t buy one and park it in your driveway

Aaaand…? That’s a pretty arbitrary measure. I guess you’ve also not seen a Tesla go hands free for hours?

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