RJ Appears to Confirm R1X (Jeep Fighter) Will Be Next Product

[Scott]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Reducing the motors from 4 to 2 would reduce cost and extend range, but both are only true if the vehicle in questions is FWD or RWD. Making a dual-motor AWD vehicle would require development of many new components (rear diff, front diff, and associated parts). So I think cost savings from a dual motor setup only exists as FWD or RWD, and these are unlikely to appeal to an “adventurous” consumer, considering that similar outdoor rooted brands like Subaru and Land Rover offer 4WD or AWD standard. Therefore, I would anticipate that any Rivian variant would be quad-motor, with a slight premium over a dual-motor AWD alternative offered by the competition. Any savings in price would stem from material savings in slightly smaller motors, battery, and interior trim/finish.

Ah, it’s fun to speculate about how decisions are made in the board room.

This article https://www.motortrend.com/news/rivian-r1x-jeep-wrangler/ states that the R2 series will not have quad motor. They might be wrong, but motortrend appears to have had the most access to Rivian so far.

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[Autolycus]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Reducing the motors from 4 to 2 would reduce cost and extend range, but both are only true if the vehicle in questions is FWD or RWD. Making a dual-motor AWD vehicle would require development of many new components (rear diff, front diff, and associated parts). So I think cost savings from a dual motor setup only exists as FWD or RWD, and these are unlikely to appeal to an “adventurous” consumer, considering that similar outdoor rooted brands like Subaru and Land Rover offer 4WD or AWD standard. Therefore, I would anticipate that any Rivian variant would be quad-motor, with a slight premium over a dual-motor AWD alternative offered by the competition. Any savings in price would stem from material savings in slightly smaller motors, battery, and interior trim/finish.

Ah, it’s fun to speculate about how decisions are made in the board room.

Development is a one-time cost. Putting 4 motors vs. 2 in the vehicle is a cost for every single one you manufacture.

 

[R_1_T]

Hmmm, based on that info doesn't seem like it'd be a more affordable vehicle. If anything sounds like it'd be more expensive since they are building more of the core components in-house. I was hoping they would next offer a cheaper truck or SUV. $70K-$90K makes the current vehicles in-accessible for most households.

Let's not forget that Wrangler Rubicon 392 start at $75990, and regular Rubicon 4xe start at $54925. Based on this, I wouldn't expect the R1X to be priced comparable to a base Wrangler Unlimited Sport.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

I need them to have the R2T ready by 2025 because my grand scheme is to pass off the R1S off to the wife and kids and get an R2T for myself.

 

[Harvest]

RJS has commented in the past that they eventually expect to make smaller, less expensive vehicles, but they needed to start out with the higher end vehicles first to generate enough income to launch the company. However, he hasn't really said what type of vehicles the less expensive models will be, at least that I've seen.

 

[Pherdnut]

RJS has commented in the past that they eventually expect to make smaller, less expensive vehicles, but they needed to start out with the higher end vehicles first to generate enough income to launch the company. However, he hasn't really said what type of vehicles the less expensive models will be, at least that I've seen.

I think that was the plan before the van deal and 8 billion in private investment. Now they're talking sales in Europe next year, which probably means R2s will be unveiled next year as well.

 

[dleewla]

Let's not forget that Wrangler Rubicon 392 start at $75990, and regular Rubicon 4xe start at $54925. Based on this, I wouldn't expect the R1X to be priced comparable to a base Wrangler Unlimited Sport.

Well, I guess my thought was I dont care what "competition" is priced at. Those other vehicles are crazy expensive too. We want EV adoption to grow and the only way thats going to happen is if prices come down (along with charging infrastructure of course). But then again this is a luxury brand so maybe expecting something that's not part of their DNA.

Its one thing I find a bit dichotomous about Rivian. Mission is to keep life adventurous, sustainability and lower environmental impact but its auxury brand, lifestyle vehicle. That makes their vehicles less accessible, not more. If they want to maximize impact, you'd think they'd build vehicles (or at least a couple) that are more affordable, more people have access to. Then again, its a dog eat dog world. They have to be compelling, profitable and find a market. Hopefully some years down the line Rivian will be in a position to expand their range of vehicles for something less expensive. I guess that's the pattern as we see that arc with Tesla.

 

[R_1_T]

Well, I guess my thought was I dont care what "competition" is priced at. Those other vehicles are crazy expensive too. We want EV adoption to grow and the only way thats going to happen is if prices come down (along with charging infrastructure of course). But then again this is a luxury brand so maybe expecting something that's not part of their DNA.

Its one thing I find a bit dichotomous about Rivian. Mission is to keep life adventurous, sustainability and lower environmental impact but its auxury brand, lifestyle vehicle. That makes their vehicles less accessible, not more. If they want to maximize impact, you'd think they'd build vehicles (or at least a couple) that are more affordable, more people have access to. Then again, its a dog eat dog world. They have to be compelling, profitable and find a market. Hopefully some years down the line Rivian will be in a position to expand their range of vehicles for something less expensive. I guess that's the pattern as we see that arc with Tesla.

This will be the purpose of the R2 vehicles. Tesla didn't start with the Model 3 for a reason...
You need the higher margin vehicles to fund development of the down market vehicles. Also consider what many of the R1 vehicles will be replacing and the related impact.

 

[dleewla]

This will be the purpose of the R2 vehicles. Tesla didn't start with the Model 3 for a reason...
You need the higher margin vehicles to fund development of the down market vehicles. Also consider what many of the R1 vehicles will be replacing and the related impact.

Good points. Hope the R2s definitely go that route. Though I think Rivian is more well funded than Tesla ever was.

 

[Rad]

I wonder what the product release cycle will be - R1T currently "in production"; R1S "soon" to be in production (by end of Q4, early Q1 '22) and then .....??? Maybe they are close enough on the R1S and upon completion of the IPO that they will start to provide some forward looking guidance relative to the next product(s). I'm very hopeful that R1T production scales quickly and R1S moves forward with production by early Q1.

If there was a Rivian product that had the off-road capability similar to Wrangler - I'd be in on that in a heartbeat. Wishful thinking that such a product will be in the works "soon". Soon is all relative - my reservation date is nearing the 3rd anniversary.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

I wonder what the product release cycle will be - R1T currently "in production"; R1S "soon" to be in production (by end of Q4, early Q1 '22) and then .....??? Maybe they are close enough on the R1S and upon completion of the IPO that they will start to provide some forward looking guidance relative to the next product(s). I'm very hopeful that R1T production scales quickly and R1S moves forward with production by early Q1.

If there was a Rivian product that had the off-road capability similar to Wrangler - I'd be in on that in a heartbeat. Wishful thinking that such a product will be in the works "soon". Soon is all relative - my reservation date is nearing the 3rd anniversary.

I'm not sure it's that wishful thinking that there could be more in the works on the near horizon. One of the articles that I read from MT mentioned that RJ essentially told them that they want to be close to 90% complete on a vehicle before they announce anything. Reading between the lines I expect the next few iterations to be

R1X (Wrangler/Bronco competitor)
R2T (Ranger size dual motor pickup)
R2S (Midsize dual motor SUV)
R2V (dual motor adventure van) - sign me up for one of these!

The question regarding timing will be whether or not they can produce the R2 (dual motor) series skateboards in Normal or if they need the new facility to be up and running before they can start producing those in volume.

 

[Trandall]

I would like to see them sell consumer adventure vans as the next offering. The VIN decoder seemed to imply the intent. You would think 90% of the design would be shared with Jeff's crap haulers just need to insert some consumer grade finishes in the cab and work with some vendors to layout a few variants for interior camping or road tripping adventurous and wham! you have a $160-200K product ready to start production by 2023.

 

[Scott]

I would like to see them sell consumer adventure vans as the next offering. The VIN decoder seemed to imply the intent. You would think 90% of the design would be shared with Jeff's crap haulers just need to insert some consumer grade finishes in the cab and work with some vendors to layout a few variants for interior camping or road tripping adventurous and wham! you have a $160-200K product ready to start production by 2023.

The problem is the adventure van market is sooooooo much smaller than the R2 line’s market. Mid sized electric suv that has off road credentials will sell at least 2 orders of magnitude more units.

 

[svet-am]

The problem is the adventure van market is sooooooo much smaller than the R2 line’s market. Mid sized electric suv that has off road credentials will sell at least 2 orders of magnitude more units.

Personally, I'd like to see them hit the service van market before the adventure van market. Service van fleets are huge and the margins can subsidize the smaller market in the adventure van space.

 

[Smithery]

The question regarding timing will be whether or not they can produce the R2 (dual motor) series skateboards in Normal or if they need the new facility to be up and running before they can start producing those in volume.

They're producing single and dual motor skateboards in Normal for the Amazon vans already, so the question is "Do they have capacity in Normal to produce yet another variant of dual motor skateboard?"

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