Rivian's electric van for Amazon raises battery power doubts - The Information

Canthoney

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https://www.reuters.com/technology/...-battery-power-doubts-information-2021-11-19/

“Nov 19 (Reuters) - Rivian Automotive Inc's (RIVN.O) electric vans for e-commerce retailer Amazon.com Inc (AMZN.O) may have a more limited range than what was previously disclosed, The Information reported on Friday, citing a driver testing the vehicle.

The driver told The Information that the battery drained about 40% faster than normal if the van's heating or cooling was on.


Amazon, which disclosed a 20% stake in Rivian at the end of October, in 2019 ordered 100,000 of its electric delivery vans as part of the e-commerce giant's effort to cut its carbon footprint.

Rivian had disclosed the vans would have a range of between 120 miles and 150 miles depending on their size. But that range is much lower depending on the weather, the report said.


According to the report, Ross Rachey, Amazon's director of Global Fleets and Products, said air conditioning and heating could drain the battery in the vehicles being tested, and these vans did not have the insulation the final vehicles manufactured by Rivian will have.

The prototype van used had as many as 12 cameras inside and outside the van, but Amazon plans to add another four once the vehicles hit the road, the report said, citing Rachey.


Amazon and Rivian did not immediately respond to Reuters' requests for comment.

Since it went public earlier this month, Rivian has grown to become one of the most valuable automakers, even though it has just started production and delivery of its electric vehicles.

Its shares pared gains following the news and were last up about 4%.”
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https://www.reuters.com/technology/...-battery-power-doubts-information-2021-11-19/

“Nov 19 (Reuters) - Rivian Automotive Inc's (RIVN.O) electric vans for e-commerce retailer Amazon.com Inc (AMZN.O) may have a more limited range than what was previously disclosed, The Information reported on Friday, citing a driver testing the vehicle.

The driver told The Information that the battery drained about 40% faster than normal if the van's heating or cooling was on.


Amazon, which disclosed a 20% stake in Rivian at the end of October, in 2019 ordered 100,000 of its electric delivery vans as part of the e-commerce giant's effort to cut its carbon footprint.

Rivian had disclosed the vans would have a range of between 120 miles and 150 miles depending on their size. But that range is much lower depending on the weather, the report said.


According to the report, Ross Rachey, Amazon's director of Global Fleets and Products, said air conditioning and heating could drain the battery in the vehicles being tested, and these vans did not have the insulation the final vehicles manufactured by Rivian will have.

The prototype van used had as many as 12 cameras inside and outside the van, but Amazon plans to add another four once the vehicles hit the road, the report said, citing Rachey.


Amazon and Rivian did not immediately respond to Reuters' requests for comment.

Since it went public earlier this month, Rivian has grown to become one of the most valuable automakers, even though it has just started production and delivery of its electric vehicles.

Its shares pared gains following the news and were last up about 4%.”
If true, 40% is a pretty big hit due to heat/AC relative to what I've experienced with the EVs I've owned. That said, it has a big cabin space and I wonder if the heat / AC is not localized enough and trying to heat/cool the whole cabin. For me in the PNW, year round, using heat/AC is mostly all about keeping the inside of the windshield defrosted of moisture. Otherwise, seat heating and cooling does a pretty good job of localized cooling/heating most of the year.
 

kurtlikevonnegut

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If true, 40% is a pretty big hit due to heat/AC relative to what I've experienced with the EVs I've owned. That said, it has a big cabin space and I wonder if the heat / AC is not localized enough and trying to heat/cool the whole cabin. For me in the PNW, year round, using heat/AC is mostly all about keeping the inside of the windshield defrosted of moisture. Otherwise, seat heating and cooling does a pretty good job of localized cooling/heating most of the year.
The story itself states that the van doesn't have the finished insulation.

This smells like a research firm with a short position that found an Amazon employee to give them something that they could use to throw FUD on the market. The fact that it's an Amazon delivery driver speaks volumes. Rivian employees with stock in the company aren't going to go on the record with something like this. Anonymous Amazon delivery driver doesn't have any skin in the game.
 

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I was going to say the insulation would probably make a huge difference. So it sounds like these are pre-production cars running around just based on the article. This is reported by a driver that runs one of them, I couldn’t read the entire article from the actual source
Keeping HVAC effective/efficient seems challenging in a vehicle where you have large doors that open every few minutes.

A related issue is that the drivers I have seen leave their door open (including the cargo door) while they deliver (one or more) package to every address they stop at.
The HVAC then has to quickly cool or heat the van to the desired temperature in such a cavernous vehicle.
I am sure smarter people than myself who work for Rivian and Amazon have taken this into consideration - I just think the issue is complicated and nature of HVAC use for delivery vans does impact battery efficiency for a vehicle of this size.
 
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Dark-Fx

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There's going to be a LOT of wasted heating energy in a vehicle that has the doors open and close constantly. 40% actually sounds too low to me, especially considering the testing vehicle isn't insulated properly.
 

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I’ve never seen a UPS truck that runs A/C…they always have the doors open. Heat? Maybe, but here in NC that is doubtful too as the front doors are open year round. So with the Amazon Van is this really an issue?
 

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Does someone know if Rivian use an heat pump to heat/cool the vans and R1 platforms ? They are much more efficient and help save energy in EVs using them.
 

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They certainly have a heat pump to pump heat from the interior to the exterior but they are not reversible according to any source I have seen.
 

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I’ve never seen a UPS truck that runs A/C…they always have the doors open. Heat? Maybe, but here in NC that is doubtful too as the front doors are open year round. So with the Amazon Van is this really an issue?
Its an issue if you are the driver. Having a door open or just a window can be a big difference. Also consider ICE need to run to have AC/Heat, where that isn't necessary for electric.
 

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The story itself states that the van doesn't have the finished insulation.

This smells like a research firm with a short position that found an Amazon employee to give them something that they could use to throw FUD on the market. The fact that it's an Amazon delivery driver speaks volumes. Rivian employees with stock in the company aren't going to go on the record with something like this. Anonymous Amazon delivery driver doesn't have any skin in the game.
Just like the now 18 month old news that Ford was canceling a shared platform with Rivian. I found an article dated April 2020 that said the same information, but now it's a news headline all across the internet all over again.

This is another concerning short position media blitz on Rivian and I completely agree with your assessment.
 

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The story itself states that the van doesn't have the finished insulation.

This smells like a research firm with a short position that found an Amazon employee to give them something that they could use to throw FUD on the market. The fact that it's an Amazon delivery driver speaks volumes. Rivian employees with stock in the company aren't going to go on the record with something like this. Anonymous Amazon delivery driver doesn't have any skin in the game.
Haters
 

kurtlikevonnegut

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Just like the now 18 month old news that Ford was canceling a shared platform with Rivian. I found an article dated April 2020 that said the same information, but now it's a news headline all across the internet all over again.

This is another concerning short position media blitz on Rivian and I completely agree with your assessment.
Honestly it was only a matter of time with the amount of press the IPO and post IPO run up got that the sharks would come to get their pound of flesh. At $175 it was almost too easy to short, which is why I cashed out half my stock there.

If this seems rough just look at what Hindenburg did to Nikola and Lordstown. This is child's play by comparison.
 

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Honestly it was only a matter of time with the amount of press the IPO and post IPO run up got that the sharks would come to get their pound of flesh. At $175 it was almost too easy to short, which is why I cashed out half my stock there.

If this seems rough just look at what Hindenburg did to Nikola and Lordstown. This is child's play by comparison.
Nikola and Lordstown both put out at best "misleading" information about deliveries and product. If Rivian is engaging in similar behavior then yes Hindenburg or someone similar with out them. If Rivian is able to fulfill their stated commitments , range ,delivery timing then no worries. Not saying the stock price is justified just there was smoke and fire in those other to examples
 
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hed

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Honestly it was only a matter of time with the amount of press the IPO and post IPO run up got that the sharks would come to get their pound of flesh. At $175 it was almost too easy to short, which is why I cashed out half my stock there.

If this seems rough just look at what Hindenburg did to Nikola and Lordstown. This is child's play by comparison.

Nikola and Lordstown are terrible examples to insinuate a hit job. From all accounts they were both closer to organized snake oil salesmen than any kind of real company with any chance of any meaningful production.
While Hindenburg Research may have had financial motivation to "sound the alarm" there seems to be fairly compelling evidence that both of the mentioned companies were misleading investors and the general public.
 
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godfodder0901

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Just like the now 18 month old news that Ford was canceling a shared platform with Rivian. I found an article dated April 2020 that said the same information, but now it's a news headline all across the internet all over again.

This is another concerning short position media blitz on Rivian and I completely agree with your assessment.
Not that it means much, but that older article was specifically for the Lincoln project that was in the works. They still planned to work together on other projects in the future. This new article is talking about scrapping those plans.
 
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