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Rivian reiterates longest range model will go over 400 miles on single charge

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@Hmp10 I think you’re right about this. While it certainly seems like Rivian is planning and testing their vehicles and power trains well, you just can’t compete with billions of on the road miles. When Rivian was just getting started Tesla was already making vehicles. This makes me cautiously optimistic about Rivian, and on the fence of whether to go with Rivian or Tesla model Y. If Tesla introduces some range and or battery improvements/ changes to the model y/ model 3 before they go into production, this could really tip the scales to Tesla for me.
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Hmp10

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Tesla certainly had its hiccups, but they went well beyond what anyone else was attempting at the time in terms of both range and power to the pavement. I think the savvier companies (and I think Rivian is one of them) will study the Tesla missteps and avoid some of them. One of these misstep avoidances already in the plans is not to over-automate the factory, which was a source of a lot of Tesla's headaches and delays.

The same goes for Lucid Air. Its Chief Engineer was Principal Engineer at Jaquar, Chief Engineer at Lotus, and Chief Engineer at Tesla for the Model S. The smart EV companies will build off not only Tesla's successes and mistakes, but those of older automotive outfits.
 

CappyJax

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If someone wants an electric vehicle, except for the Chinese BYDe6 (if you can find one), there is no older, more proven technology currently on the market than Tesla's. The Nissan Leaf did go into production two years before Tesla Model S, but the batteries in that first generation experienced accelerated deterioration due to poor temperature management, and Nissan had to re-engineer the packs (which still lack liquid cooling). Toyota briefly produced an RAV4 EV, but it used Tesla technology.

Anyone buying any of the next-generation EV's, including Rivian, is going to be buying a far less road-proven vehicle than a new Tesla. That won't keep me from buying a Rivian or a Lucid, but it will be with the full expectation that the initial production runs are going to have some problems crop up later.
Tesla has one of the worst reputations for reliability and serviceability. A lot of miles on a model doesn’t make it road proven if they don’t fix/upgrade the problems. It only proves a lack of testing before entering full production.
 

Hmp10

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I had a 1997 Corvette that was plagued with problems. The driver's side window leaked so badly during a rain that I had to stuff paper towels along the top edge. The brake discs warped twice, having to be turned once and then replaced. The car constantly went into limp mode. The last time it did I was on the inside lane of I-95 against a concrete barrier and thought I was going to get killed trying to get the car off the road. I left it there, walked down an exit, called a tow truck, and never drove it again. It was one year old.

The next most problem-riddled car I owned was a 2004 Mercedes SL55. Transmission shift lever broke, the seat heaters failed, the trunk gasket leaked, a power window motor went out, and the brake-by-wire system had to be replaced twice. I had that car for four years and dumped it the minute the warranty ran out.

I drove my 2015 Tesla Model S for three and a half years before it had its first problem, which Tesla fixed under warranty -- admittedly after a few weeks of frustration -- and I still have four more years on the warranty.

I have spent a lot of time on Tesla owners forums, and the reporting of problems I saw looked pretty much like what one sees on forums for any other brand.

I assume you're on this board because you are interested in electric vehicles. What "proven slightly older EV tech" are you planning to buy?
 

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I had a 1997 Corvette that was plagued with problems. The driver's side window leaked so badly during a rain that I had to stuff paper towels along the top edge. The brake discs warped twice, having to be turned once and then replaced. The car constantly went into limp mode. The last time it did I was on the inside lane of I-95 against a concrete barrier and thought I was going to get killed trying to get the car off the road. I left it there, walked down an exit, called a tow truck, and never drove it again. It was one year old.

The next most problem-riddled car I owned was a 2004 Mercedes SL55. Transmission shift lever broke, the seat heaters failed, the trunk gasket leaked, a power window motor went out, and the brake-by-wire system had to be replaced twice. I had that car for four years and dumped it the minute the warranty ran out.

I drove my 2015 Tesla Model S for three and a half years before it had its first problem, which Tesla fixed under warranty -- admittedly after a few weeks of frustration -- and I still have four more years on the warranty.

I have spent a lot of time on Tesla owners forums, and the reporting of problems I saw looked pretty much like what one sees on forums for any other brand.

I assume you're on this board because you are interested in electric vehicles. What "proven slightly older EV tech" are you planning to buy?
Anecdotal experiences are not evidence.
 

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Hmp10

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That's true. In fact, Tesla did fall six spots on the most recent Consumer Reports reliability rankings. It's now tied with Cadillac and remains above Volvo -- two very old brands using long-proven technologies.

Given the fact that Tesla brought a car to market using so much unconventional technology, reliability problems in the early years are to be expected. The fact that it is holding its own against America's oldest luxury brand and beating Europe's "safest" brand on reliability so early in its existence is not proof of faulty engineering and testing but quite the opposite.

I still would like to know what proven slightly older tech you are planning to buy. Do you know of some product on the market that no one else does, or does that mean that you have no plans to buy an EV until they have the same years and miles of experience as ICE cars?
 

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'The fact that it is holding its own against America's oldest luxury brand and beating Europe's "safest" brand on reliability so early in its existence is not proof of faulty engineering and testing but quite the opposite.'

WHAT?? What don't you understand about second to last??

And stop asking stupid questions.
 

Hmp10

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I do understand second to last. But so was Cadillac. I doubt if most people would view a new Cadillac as unreliable in terms of whether it is a safe car or a car not likely to get you to your destination and back.

Reliability ratings are relative, not absolute. There is no car on the Consumer Reports list of luxury car ratings that anyone would call "unreliable" in the sense that it is either unsafe on the road or not likely to get you to your destination and back. This is not the 1970's or 1980's when real junk was being put on the road. Volvo, the lowest-rated car for reliability on the recent Consumer Reports list, is hardly a car that most people would worry about driving.

If Tesla, only six years after entering large-scale auto production with many new technologies, is already as reliable as long-established brands such as Cadillac and Volvo, it's very hard to maintain the position that Teslas are neither well engineered nor thoroughly tested.

You are on a board about a new entrant into the EV market -- Rivian. Regarding Telsa, you said that you would prefer to go with "proven slightly older tech" -- your words, not mine. I am asking what slightly older EV tech is on the market. Either you must have some brand in mind to make that statement, or you are stating a preference for ICE cars. Just because you can't or won't answer the question doesn't make it stupid.
 

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I have never stated a brand because I am not certain what I will buy. I don't have enough information about Rivian. In all likelihood, I would lean towards a Ford because they will go with the most reliable and well tested technology. Plus, they already have a large network of service centers. And yes, there is well tested EV technology.

The big thing about Volvo/Cadillac is that they stand behind their product and get their vehicles fixed quickly. Tesla does not.
 

Hmp10

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Where are you getting your information that Tesla does not stand behind its products? I own a Tesla and have spent many hours on Tesla discussion forums. There have been very few complaints about Tesla not standing behind its product. It's true that service times deteriorated badly after the Model 3 hit the market, and it was aggravating to many, myself included. But Tesla is already expanding both its service centers and mobile service crews. Even though there is not a service center in my town, Tesla rents several local storage units where supplies of most-frequently needed parts are available to the mobile service crews. The great majority of problems can be handled by those crews.

I had three and a half virtually problem-free years with my Tesla before its first real problem. Only two things happened in those first few years. A door handle overextended and froze in place while I was washing the car one night. I called Tesla Service at 9:30 p.m., and they had a mobile service guy at my home before 9:00 the next morning. He fixed it on the spot. Later I drove the car in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Irma. Eight friends rode out the hurricane with me in my house. Gas had become unavailable several days before the hurricane hit, and it remained unavailable for a week afterward due to power outages. I had a whole-house generator and could keep the Tesla charged, so I started shuttling people to their houses as soon as the major roads cleared so they could check their properties. On one trip I hit an unexpectedly-deep stretch of standing water without slowing down enough, and I tore part of the underbody airflow panel loose. (It didn't affect the drivability of the car.) I called Tesla, and they sent someone out to replace it as soon as they could get their trucks back on the road. I told them it was my fault, but they insisted on covering it under warranty.

In those three and a half years, the only money I spent on the car other than tires was for the two-year service check. I skipped the one-year service, because most people on the forums said it was unnecessary. I called Tesla, they checked my car's use history on their system, and they told me there was no problem waiting until the two-year check.

Forty-two months in, I had my first real problem. A weld cracked in the battery pack, which in turn damaged the inverter in the rear drive unit. Tesla sent a mobile service person to my house. He examined the car and determined it had to go to a service center across the state. Tesla had a tow truck at my garage a few days later. They trucked the car to Miami, put in a new, larger battery pack and the newest-generation (and more powerful) rear drive unit, and returned the car to me, upgraded from a P85D to a P90D. I got a bit aggravated that the whole process dragged on for several weeks, as it was the peak of Model 3 deliveries . . . but I never had to step foot out of my house, and it didn't cost me a dime.

This is not my idea of failing to stand behind a product.

I had a first-year C6 Corvette leave me stranded on an 8-land stretch of I-95 in heavy traffic. I had a new-generation Mercedes SL55 brake-by-wire system fail, causing me to crash through an exit arm in a parking garage and roll into a 3-lane one-way street in downtown Chicago. I had the transmission seize up in a first-year Jaguar S-Type two months after delivery. I flew to Vermont to pick up a 2008 Audi R-8 soon after the car hit the market. On the drive back to Chicago, the magnetic suspension system malfunctioned.

As you perhaps can tell, I like to buy new models soon after introduction. All in all, the Tesla has been one of the easiest-to-own cars I have had.

Anecdotal? Maybe. But there are only two reasons I would not buy a Tesla as my next car: the rear seat is uncomfortable, and I can't resist trying a newer entrant such as Rivian or Lucid.
 

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CappyJax

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Anecdotal experiences are not evidence.
 

Hmp10

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Anecdotal experiences are evidence. They're just not dispositive evidence of multiple events or larger trends. I asked you what was your source for your claim that Tesla does not back up its products. You have failed to identify that source. So you have not presented any evidence at all. At least I have anecdotal evidence.
 

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So, I guess we can assume you won't be providing any evidence (anecdotal or otherwise) for your claim that Tesla doesn't back up it products. Go figure.
 

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Try reading the Consumer Reports articles to which you already referenced earlier, genius!
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