Rivian R1T OWNERS MANUAL Guide is here! ?

[jdhiker23]

We keep talking about regen and strength of regen in this thread, but I think the different preferences people are describing are actually better addressed by the pedal response (how movement of the "gas" pedal translates to increased power or regeneration). I have to assume that the R1 pedal response will not be linear in the normal drive mode (with the power these vehicles can deliver, a linear pedal response would likely give you a far more jerky response than you want for normal driving). So if we already have a non-linear pedal response curve in the software, it is easy to dial in a wide enough "dead band" around the zero regeneration spot that you can back off on the pedal to a middle point and coast. With a wide dead band, you won't get a surging feel or unwanted acceleration/deceleration from minor pedal movement in this part of the curve (what @flabyboy wants to avoid with kids that get carsick easily and when driving on ice), but if you back off the pedal even further you can get as much regeneration as you want. IMHO, the one key point where regen strength matters more than pedal response curve is when you take your foot completely off the pedal. I get the desire to take your foot off the pedal from time to time on long drives, which is not an option with one pedal driving without cruise control. Before getting my current vehicle with adaptive cruise control, I would have been in the camp of demanding an option for this use case, but now I'm so used to seamlessly switching on and off adaptive cruise control in these scenarios that I no longer have a desire for this.

Finally, one more point on the pedal response curve and why I think it is more important to the driving experience than strength of regen. Since everything is electronically controlled, you can make the wide dead band in pedal response at the point where the vehicle is coasting (zero power in or out from the motors) or you can make it at the zero acceleration point (zero change in speed). A zero acceleration point would work like cruise control in that it would increase power going uphill and regen going downhill such that you would keep the same speed if you don't change the pedal position. I doubt Rivian would implement this as the default response, since it would feel very un-intuitive coming from an ICE vehicle, but it's another option and might be useful for specialized driving modes like rock crawling where you want a consistent (very low) speed even though the power delivery will be changing dramatically to achieve this as the wheels encounter obstacles.

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[Scott]

We keep talking about regen and strength of regen in this thread, but I think the different preferences people are describing are actually better addressed by the pedal response (how movement of the "gas" pedal translates to increased power or regeneration). I have to assume that the R1 pedal response will not be linear in the normal drive mode (with the power these vehicles can deliver, a linear pedal response would likely give you a far more jerky response than you want for normal driving). So if we already have a non-linear pedal response curve in the software, it is easy to dial in a wide enough "dead band" around the zero regeneration spot that you can back off on the pedal to a middle point and coast. With a wide dead band, you won't get a surging feel or unwanted acceleration/deceleration from minor pedal movement in this part of the curve (what @flabyboy wants to avoid with kids that get carsick easily and when driving on ice), but if you back off the pedal even further you can get as much regeneration as you want. IMHO, the one key point where regen strength matters more than pedal response curve is when you take your foot completely off the pedal. I get the desire to take your foot off the pedal from time to time on long drives, which is not an option with one pedal driving without cruise control. Before getting my current vehicle with adaptive cruise control, I would have been in the camp of demanding an option for this use case, but now I'm so used to seamlessly switching on and off adaptive cruise control in these scenarios that I no longer have a desire for this.

Finally, one more point on the pedal response curve and why I think it is more important to the driving experience than strength of regen. Since everything is electronically controlled, you can make the wide dead band in pedal response at the point where the vehicle is coasting (zero power in or out from the motors) or you can make it at the zero acceleration point (zero change in speed). A zero acceleration point would work like cruise control in that it would increase power going uphill and regen going downhill such that you would keep the same speed if you don't change the pedal position. I doubt Rivian would implement this as the default response, since it would feel very un-intuitive coming from an ICE vehicle, but it's another option and might be useful for specialized driving modes like rock crawling where you want a consistent (very low) speed even though the power delivery will be changing dramatically to achieve this as the wheels encounter obstacles.

2 responses:

1. For all my espousing the virtue of VWs solution, one pedal driving with strong regen is awesome off-road. It is basically hill descent control. Off-roading is a place where not having to switch back and forth between pedals is very beneficial and in my mind is clearly superior.

2. One thing I have noticed in my car is that when I use the no lift off regen configuration vs the mode with lift off regen the feel of the car when coasting is different. In no lift off regen mode you can feel the car rolling more freely than when I thread the needle with the lift off regen on so that the meter shows no acceleration and no regen. It feels akin to neutral vs drive on an ICE automatic. Your idea of playing with the curve could fix this I guess but I doubt it gets implemented.

 

[ajdelange]

I think we can be quite certain that hundreds of "driver" hours have been logged on simulators with the goal of optimizing the pedal response curve(s). I'm guessing it's adaptive.

 

[jdhiker23]

I think we can be quite certain that hundreds of "driver" hours have been logged on simulators with the goal of optimizing the pedal response curve(s). I'm guessing it's adaptive.

Agreed. I'm excited to see what they come up with and interested to see if it is the same for everyone in a given driving mode setting or if it learns and adjusts your driver profile to your individual driving style over time.

 

[flabyboy]

What does regen have to do with that or perhaps why do you think regen would bother them more than friction braking?

What about regen makes you think you would be any more prone to skiddimg on ssnow or icy roads?


There is nothing in full regen mode that will preclude coasting if that's what you want to do. Actually, with regen you will be able to diminish tire wear because you can observe the and control the magnitude of the torque applied to the wheels, positive or negative. You can't do that with the friction brake.

All the concerns I have are ones that I have heard from friends who are EV users. It’s really a matter of learning how to feather speed changes with the one pedal driving and that will take some getting used for me at first.

Mostly I just want the option to turn it way down at times. Options are good. Making people adapt a certain way is very Tesla like. Not a fan

 

[flabyboy]

We keep talking about regen and strength of regen in this thread, but I think the different preferences people are describing are actually better addressed by the pedal response (how movement of the "gas" pedal translates to increased power or regeneration). I have to assume that the R1 pedal response will not be linear in the normal drive mode (with the power these vehicles can deliver, a linear pedal response would likely give you a far more jerky response than you want for normal driving). So if we already have a non-linear pedal response curve in the software, it is easy to dial in a wide enough "dead band" around the zero regeneration spot that you can back off on the pedal to a middle point and coast. With a wide dead band, you won't get a surging feel or unwanted acceleration/deceleration from minor pedal movement in this part of the curve (what @flabyboy wants to avoid with kids that get carsick easily and when driving on ice), but if you back off the pedal even further you can get as much regeneration as you want. IMHO, the one key point where regen strength matters more than pedal response curve is when you take your foot completely off the pedal. I get the desire to take your foot off the pedal from time to time on long drives, which is not an option with one pedal driving without cruise control. Before getting my current vehicle with adaptive cruise control, I would have been in the camp of demanding an option for this use case, but now I'm so used to seamlessly switching on and off adaptive cruise control in these scenarios that I no longer have a desire for this.

Finally, one more point on the pedal response curve and why I think it is more important to the driving experience than strength of regen. Since everything is electronically controlled, you can make the wide dead band in pedal response at the point where the vehicle is coasting (zero power in or out from the motors) or you can make it at the zero acceleration point (zero change in speed). A zero acceleration point would work like cruise control in that it would increase power going uphill and regen going downhill such that you would keep the same speed if you don't change the pedal position. I doubt Rivian would implement this as the default response, since it would feel very un-intuitive coming from an ICE vehicle, but it's another option and might be useful for specialized driving modes like rock crawling where you want a consistent (very low) speed even though the power delivery will be changing dramatically to achieve this as the wheels encounter obstacles.

Taking one’s foot completely off the pedal is exactly what I’m thinking about. Having driven ICE vehicles for 30 years it will be a habit that needs to be broken and I really hope I don’t do it on MN black ice. Coasting without any active acceleration or deceleration has kept me safe many winters up here. It’s a learning curve. Just hoping my Rivian isn’t filled with puke and collision damage before I figure it out ?

 

[monzarottie]

Taking one’s foot completely off the pedal is exactly what I’m thinking about. Having driven ICE vehicles for 30 years it will be a habit that needs to be broken and I really hope I don’t do it on MN black ice. Coasting without any active acceleration or deceleration has kept me safe many winters up here. It’s a learning curve. Just hoping my Rivian isn’t filled with puke and collision damage before I figure it out ?

You'll surprised how quickly you adapt and learn to love it. That being said the first time or two taking your foot off the accelerator will be interesting.

 

[eggpaul]

These are preset charge levels. I really hope that we will be able to pick any charge level we want i.e. that we will not be limited to three values chosen by Rivian. Three presets is fine as long as there is some submenu in which we can set the presets.

Anyway what these mean is that if you pick "daily" the car will charge to say 60%, if you pick "trip" it will charge to say 85% snd if you pick "extended" it will charge to near 100%. Those numbers are just guesses and I re-emphasize that if I want to charge to 55% or 80% or 85% that I should be able to set those levels. And I also want to be able to set the rate (e.g. 5 kW or 6 kW).

Oh. So if I keep the vehicle on daily the range would show 188. They are saying charging only 60% of the battery is good for it?

 

[ajdelange]

Oh. So if I keep the vehicle on daily the range would show 188.

If they display SoC in terms of miles and if my guess that daily = 60% is correct it will be 60% of the range available from a full charge. I'm not being too specific here as there are a couple of ways of specifying 100% range. One is based on the EPA rating so you would have 60% of 314 = 188. But they may consider 100% range to mean the range available from a fully charged battery based on your actual consumption. It's probably going to be the former.

They are saying charging only 60% of the battery is good for it?

For long battery life
A)Charge it low
B)Charge it slow
C)Charge it warm (the BMS is supposed to take care of this one).

 

[eggpaul]

If they display SoC in terms of miles and if my guess that daily = 60% is correct it will be 60% of the range available from a full charge. I'm not being too specific here as there are a couple of ways of specifying 100% range. One is based on the EPA rating so you would have 60% of 314 = 188. But they may consider 100% range to mean the range available from a fully charged battery based on your actual consumption. It's probably going to be the former.


For long battery life
A)Charge it low
B)Charge it slow
C)Charge it warm (the BMS is supposed to take care of this one).

So wouldn't it be better for the battery to use the supplied plug and cable vs the rivian wall charger? Or not too much difference between them?

 

[Scott]

So wouldn't it be better for the battery to use the supplied plug and cable vs the rivian wall charger? Or not too much difference between them?

Slow is relative. In theory all L1 and L2 chargers are "slow". DC Fast chargers are fast. There might be a lifespan gain from using a slower L2 charger, but I am guessing it is pretty negligible.

 

[cmtaylor963]

You'll surprised how quickly you adapt and learn to love it. That being said the first time or two taking your foot off the accelerator will be interesting.

My Mach E is my first EV. I relied heavily on coasting in my previous vehicle, and was nervous about 1pedal driving. It only took me a few days to get pretty well accustomed to it.

 

[ajdelange]

So wouldn't it be better for the battery to use the supplied plug and cable vs the rivian wall charger? Or not too much difference between them?

The supplied EVSE will do 32A with the 14-50 adapter. You might expect to gain a bit of longevity if you ran it at 25 or 20 assuming you have the time. But it won’t be a spectacular gain. Running it with the 5-15 adapter is going too far (but there are people who do that).

 

[chicagoair]

There are references to "Trailer Sway Control" (like it is a defined term) on page 144 and 145. But, I don't see anywhere where they describe what the vehicle actually does to control trailer sway (other than automatically disengaging Adaptive Cruise Control).

Did I miss a description of what it does elsewhere? Or, is it something that everyone is supposed to already know about? My current vehicle has power windows and anti-lock brakes so maybe I'm just too far behind the times.

Trailer sway control is a pretty standard feature these days on cars equipped to tow from the factory. It normally applies only the left or right brake on the vehicle to try to straighten out the trailer.

We own a small Airstream and while our Volvo has electronic sway control, we still use a physical sway bar. Trailer sway control is reactive once a sway event is underway (dangerous and terrifying!), we’d prefer to prevent one from happening in the first place.

I was excited to see the manual gave the ok to not use weight distribution below 5,000 pounds. Our camper is under 5k pounds and not using a weight distribution hitch with the R1T would make it much quicker to unhitch when needed at charging stations. I’ll still use a physical sway bar.

 

[SeaGeo]

Ummm, don't think so. This is basically telling the computer at what battery voltage it should disconnect the charging circuit. What voltage is deemed to represent 80% SoC may change from day to day or over time as the battery ages, Rivian changes its BMS firmware, with temperature etc. but in determining when to shut off the charger the battery is at a highish SoC - far from the start of the lower buffer.

I’m not following. I’m just suggesting that they may be playing some pretty basic software presentation games to keep users in the 20-80% range to maintain battery health rather than 0-60%. The latter seems like a pretty odd portion of the battery pack to sit people in for daily use. Does Rivian really want to encourage people going down into the very bottom of the pack frequently? I doubt it. Should Be easy to figure out what it’s doing once people play Around with then profiles.

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