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CommodoreAmiga

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Not everyone wants their throttle pedal to act as a "dead man switch", dropping the anchor every time they let off. But just because some of us don't want that behavior (at least not all the time) that doesn't mean that we don't want all the braking that we do do to be as regenerative as possible.
I get where you’re coming from, and I tend to agree that choice/options are generally preferred…. But in the absence of that choice, Adaptive Cruise Control does provide some relief and allow you to effectively ”go with the flow” without holding the skinny pedal.
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CommodoreAmiga

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You sure that’s not just for the windows?
Yep. It’s just a button I can press and it disables both the window controls AND prevents the rear doors from being opened from the inside.

Rivian R1T R1S Rivian R1T OWNERS MANUAL Guide  is here! ? 7C52BBEA-DF77-457F-8B87-2B9E1F5AC5CE
 

crashmtb

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Yep. It’s just a button I can press and it disables both the window controls AND prevents the rear doors from being opened from the inside.

7C52BBEA-DF77-457F-8B87-2B9E1F5AC5CE.jpeg
Neat. Most cars you have to do the doors manually - using the key or something to disengage the interior door handle, like Rivian is doing.
 

DuckTruck

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So I'm trying to figure out the invocation of the Alexa integration. Since there is no infotainment information in the owner's manual that has been released, I assume there is a separate manual coming.

The owners manual talks about the left thumb control for audio and phone. It appears that all button functions are accounted for.
The manual goes on to says: "The right thumb control is for Driver+ features." Then describes the usage of those buttons. It does not say what pressing the center of the right side thumb control does, except its use for Manual Trailer Braking.

I'm hoping that there is a way to hit a button to wake up Alexa. Wake word recognition is sometimes flaky, and difficult when listening to music or other noise is occurring like the giggles and screams of passengers in those 3 second 0-60 runs. It'd have thought pressing the center of the right thumb control would be a wake event for Alexa, but the trailer braking has me confused. Anybody have any experience to clarify this? @DuckTruck ?
Unfortunately, I got nuthin' about that function.....

As others have mentioned, I'm assuming a separate manual will follow shortly covering the UI/Entertainment interfaces. My Caddy and Volvo each have a separate physical manual for the electronics versus the rest of the vehicle. Given the differences between the Launch Edition/Adventure model and the Explore model, it might be logical to expect separate UI manuals specific to the vehicle in question. Since they're not printing them, why not make them as customized as possible. Of course, they could just put it all together and delineate them by model in the manual.

As a side note, I wonder how long it will be until we stop calling these electronic documents "manuals" and "books"? I know we use "e"-this & "e"-that for many things, but the question stands, "When will that wording go away?"
 

ajdelange

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Not everyone wants their throttle pedal to act as a "dead man switch", dropping the anchor every time they let off. But just because some of us don't want that behavior (at least not all the time) that doesn't mean that we don't want all the braking that we do do to be as regenerative as possible.
I don't think you understand regenerative braking or more broadly how a PMSRM motor works well enough to appreciate that you are, in the sentence quoted, contradicting yourself. Maximum regeneration means that all braking is done by regen except when it is insufficient. Only in desperation do we use any friction braking at all.
 

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Ah yes, I see that part of showing the cameras and sensors; I was referring to the vehicle steering for you while you modulate the accelerator pedal and shift when notified to. My 2016 Prius can parallel park on both driver and passenger side, exit a parallel parking spot, as well as back into a spot without me touching the wheel.
 

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Ah yes, I see that part of showing the cameras and sensors; I was referring to the vehicle steering for you while you modulate the accelerator pedal and shift when notified to. My 2016 Prius can parallel park on both driver and passenger side, exit a parallel parking spot, as well as back into a spot without me touching the wheel.
I didn't see anything in the manual either about this. Would be nice, and likely could be pushed via OTA if not included at delivery, if on Rivian's short list.

That said, as someone who grew up in the city I kinda enjoy giving a master class in parallel parking when I go out. When I have a shiny new Rivian everyone will assume it's the car software and not me ?
 

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"Side mirrors project the Rivian logo on the ground." Nice attention to detail.
The child locks on my car are right at eye level and easily accessible to inquisitive and deft little hands. The difficulty of engaging/disengaging the locks on the Rivian with a water tight seal is a great idea. The child lock feature makes it that much easier to use the R1T as a police vehicle.
 

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You already know how to do it and have been doing it for years. You have just never really thought about it because for most of your life the skinny pedal only went from a very small negative g value to a much larger positive g value. You have always moved your foot to get the system g's you need: 0 for cruise at constant speed, in for acceleration, back for deceleration. What is different now is that the negative g's available from the skinny pedal are greater in magnitude so that you don't have to switch over to the fat pedal as soon or as often. Ideally you will never touch it.


It has never been that way. Why do you want it that way now? Think about this. In your ICE vehicle what do you do when you see the brake lights come on on a car well in front of you? Do you go immediately to the brake or do you just feather the gas pedal only resorting to the brake if feathering the gas is not slowing you down enough? I hope it's the latter because my wife does what you are suggesting and it makes me car sick. Assuming it is the former things aren't going to change with regen. It is just that your trips to the fat pedal will become fewer and farther between eventually reaching near 0 and you will be wondering why you were ever concerned about this. Your "don't like it" will cahnge to "like it".
I've seen you use this scenario multiple times over the months to justify one pedal driving. Last time I drove out to a friends house about 40 minutes away I paid attention to my use of the pedals in my Prius. Here's what I found out.

When I take my foot off the gas to "coast" it is typically in response to erratic drivers. Which being in a populated area, we have plenty to go around. If someone in traffic starts making unpredictable moves, I will remove my foot from the gas pedal to coast, and place it resting on the brake pedal, anticipating the need to engage the friction brakes to counter stupidity on the road.

Your example does not take this scenario into account. The time it takes to swap from gas to brake in an emergency can be the difference between a close call and a crash. We also have unintentional acceleration where the driver presses the "skinny" pedal as you like to call it instead of the break in an emergency. One pedal driving requires more coordination, physical and mental, during an emergency.

Even the non-linear "braking" could cause an issue for other drivers. Removing the foot from the skinny pedal engages full regen which has a specific acceleration rate, that happens for a period of time until the operation can move to the fat pedal to engage the friction brakes, which increases the acceleration. if a driver behind the vehicle sees the initial rate and acts according to that, there's a higher chance for a rear end collision once the friction breaks are applied.

However in "normal" driving scenarios, your example applies, you are feathering the gas pedal to maintain constant velocity, so it shouldn't really matter how far the pedal is depressed, say 5 degrees in one instance and 15 in the other (although it may matter slightly depending on range of motion and muscle/skeletal problems).

Also your second point is hilarious. Sounds like your wife drives like my dad. The car has 2 modes, full gas or full brake. If we are in traffic he always makes me car sick.
 

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CommodoreAmiga

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Your example does not take this scenario into account. The time it takes to swap from gas to brake in an emergency can be the difference between a close call and a crash. We also have unintentional acceleration where the driver presses the "skinny" pedal as you like to call it instead of the break in an emergency. One pedal driving requires more coordination, physical and mental, during an emergency.

Even the non-linear "braking" could cause an issue for other drivers. Removing the foot from the skinny pedal engages full regen which has a specific acceleration rate, that happens for a period of time until the operation can move to the fat pedal to engage the friction brakes, which increases the acceleration. if a driver behind the vehicle sees the initial rate and acts according to that, there's a higher chance for a rear end collision once the friction breaks are applied.
If only God had given us another leg so we could "cover" the brake in those situations. Hmm, I guess maybe evolution will eventually get the number of lower limbs to match the number of pedals.
 

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I drive an e-tron, which has a very similar system to the Taycan, and I wanna throw in my vote for "I wish Rivian had the same system". As has already been said: yes, I agree that any automaker should *allow* heavy regen on the accelerator as an option, but they should also allow for zero with full coast. Managing you speed and coasting will always be more efficient than regen. Regen is more effecint than friction brakes, but it's never going to be more efficient than simply not scrubbing speed at all. Converting from kinetic energy to electric energy is not 100% efficient.

The thing I don't get is why anyone would argue that the VW/Audi/Porsche brake by wire system is a bad idea. It's brake by wire. It's not like the system on a Bolt, which mixes both friction and Regen. The VW system uses 100% regen up until the point that you need more force, and then it adds the friction brakes. It forces the most energy recovery *regardless* of driving style. It feels very very much like a normal braking system, as opposed to a mediocre blended system like so many hybrids have.

Interesting reading here starting on page 56: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10155750-9999.pdf
@ajdelange and @eemri Thanks for your responses on the topic. I would respond to you both individually, but I feel this post from @mindstormsguy sums up my opinion well. I disagree with the notion that Tesla's one pedal system is inherently better. We all agree that coasting is thee most efficient way to slow down. From a user experience perspective I find it easier to achieve that state by taking my foot completely off of pedals. I know people say "you get used to it", but it is very very hard to achieve perfect neutral position in a one pedal system. You tend to use a little regen and then a little acceleration. In the end it is probably a negligible difference, but it also has the benefit of being what people are used to and allows you to move back and forth to ICE vehicles better.

I personally find it a little arrogant / condescending to tell other people what they should prefer. I do understand that the VW groups system is more complicated, but it also allows both camps to operate in their preferred manner.
 

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I've seen you use this scenario multiple times over the months to justify one pedal driving.
I suppose I must sound as if I am trying to sell it because I am really pretty enthusiastic about it and I do feel it is one of the best features of BEV. Nonetheless I am not trying to justify it. I believe that has been done by Tesla and now Rivian. I am, rather, trying to assure people who are now convinced, for whatever reason and I've seen some doozies, that they won't like it that I think they in fact probably will. But it is interesting that you have seen me use this particular analogy several times recently because it just occurred to me this morning!

Last time I drove out to a friends house about 40 minutes away I paid attention to my use of the pedals in my Prius. Here's what I found out.

When I take my foot off the gas to "coast" it is typically in response to erratic drivers. Which being in a populated area, we have plenty to go around. If someone in traffic starts making unpredictable moves, I will remove my foot from the gas pedal to coast, and place it resting on the brake pedal, anticipating the need to engage the friction brakes to counter stupidity on the road.

Your example does not take this scenario into account.
Clearly when I drive about in urban/suburban environments I encounter my share of idiots (and I see them in rural areas too) who require unanticipated deceleration. I has, so far, been my experience with single pedal that the negative g's provided by the Tesla regen system have been adequate. The only difference that I can see between this and the way it was in the Lexus days is that I would have had to use the brake pedal in many of those instances. I really don't see how that's better.

It really seems you are grasping at straws here trying to convince yourself that single pedal driving is a bad thing. Looks as if you are stuck with it so my only suggestion is to try to approach it with an open mind.


Sounds like your wife drives like my dad. The car has 2 modes, full gas or full brake. If we are in traffic he always makes me car sick.
Yep, your dad and my mrs went to the same driving school.
 

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I get where you’re coming from, and I tend to agree that choice/options are generally preferred…. But in the absence of that choice, Adaptive Cruise Control does provide some relief and allow you to effectively ”go with the flow” without holding the skinny pedal.
I tend to use cruise ALL the time, so that is likely my way around what I find to be annoying 1 pedal driving. The computer is usually more efficient of a driver than humans (not all humans, but most)
 

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so far, been my experience with single pedal that the negative g's provided by the Tesla regen system have been adequate.
Mainly it is this. I haven't experienced single pedal driving so I don't know how much it provides, so it is trusting that your experience will translate over to mine.

I expect i will be able to adapt with no issues, but they just aren't exactly equivalent in all situations.
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