Rivian preparing in-house V2H charger

[MacO512]

Only supported with KIA EV9 for now. $6500 price point is much better than the Ford or GM solution, though it still requires an official installer.

I just don't see the point of this V2H?

EVSE are a couple hundred bucks.

Can get a huge inverter setup with 40kwh battery backup for much less than that V2H $6500. Then you have that backup plus 120v Rivian backup if ever needed.

Also not putting battery cycles on an $100k+ vehicle which will degrade the battery.

Future Rivian/EV vehicles can just do 240 output so can have a cheap generator interlock switch that's a couple hundred bucks.

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[Forager]

I just don't see the point of this V2H?

EVSE are a couple hundred bucks.

Can get a huge inverter setup with 40kwh battery backup for much less than that V2H $6500. Then you have that backup plus 120v Rivian backup if ever needed.

Also not putting battery cycles on an $100k+ vehicle which will degrade the battery.

Future Rivian/EV vehicles can just do 240 output so can have a cheap generator interlock switch that's a couple hundred bucks.

If you can find me a 40kWh battery and inverter backup system for $6500 I’d happily go that route. I don’t think it exists.

I am not concerned with battery cycling on my EVs. They all have 10 year warranties. Besides, I’m not looking to use them as a means to load-shed or arbitrage TOU electric plans, I’m just looking for a battery backup option to handle an annual 24-36hr outage. I know regions with high TOU rates and electric charges might be interested in cycling the batteries more, but it’s not a concern for everyone.

If the R2 actually ships with an onboard 11kW split-phase inverter as intended, then it will really increase the probability of me purchasing one.

 

[mrose]

I just don't see the point of this V2H?

EVSE are a couple hundred bucks.

Can get a huge inverter setup with 40kwh battery backup for much less than that V2H $6500. Then you have that backup plus 120v Rivian backup if ever needed.

Also not putting battery cycles on an $100k+ vehicle which will degrade the battery.

Future Rivian/EV vehicles can just do 240 output so can have a cheap generator interlock switch that's a couple hundred bucks.

I am not sure there is any definitive proof that increased cycling damages modern EV batteries substantially. V2H helps in areas of California where we pay the highest rate per KWH (of the lower 48) and they are reducing NEM %. It allows a Rivian owner to use their 135Kw (large pack) R1 rather than buy power walls

 

[docwhiz]

I just don't see the point of this V2H?

EVSE are a couple hundred bucks.

Can get a huge inverter setup with 40kwh battery backup for much less than that V2H $6500. Then you have that backup plus 120v Rivian backup if ever needed.

Also not putting battery cycles on an $100k+ vehicle which will degrade the battery.

Future Rivian/EV vehicles can just do 240 output so can have a cheap generator interlock switch that's a couple hundred bucks.

I agree that the existing V2H setups are too expensive when they can be duplicated with a $2,000 inverter.
However, batteries are not that cheap yet. About $200-$300/kWh which would make a 40 kWh home battery $8,000 - $ 12,000.
If I didn't already have a home battery and inverter, I would go with a home inverter (with solar and generator input such as the EG4 models) and hope that Rivian provides a split phase output in future models. Alternatively, even the existing 1500 Watt 120 v output would get you by in a pinch if it was used to "trickle charge" a home battery. (This could provide up to 36 kWh a day which is lots more than most homes require.)

 

[MacO512]

If you can find me a 40kWh battery and inverter backup system for $6500 I’d happily go that route. I don’t think it exists.

I am not concerned with battery cycling on my EVs. They all have 10 year warranties. Besides, I’m not looking to use them as a means to load-shed or arbitrage TOU electric plans, I’m just looking for a battery backup option to handle an annual 24-36hr outage. I know regions with high TOU rates and electric charges might be interested in cycling the batteries more, but it’s not a concern for everyone.

If the R2 actually ships with an onboard 11kW split-phase inverter as intended, then it will really increase the probability of me purchasing one.

Yeah I was off on the 40kWh, sorry.

But could grab EG4 12k inverter for $2500 and the 4 of these for $4k which is 24kWh;
https://www.litime.com/products/48v-100ah-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery#

Or if you want to spend some more have an easily mobile solution (could throw in Rivian if camping/etc to extend range)
https://a.co/d/15YhpUf

If its only 24-36 hours a year by far the cheapest is a couple hundred interlock kit and generator. This 11kw one is $2600
https://a.co/d/eY1umcg
Again could take that camping to charge the rivian if ever needed... or freedom to use generator on big appliance and Rivian 120v on smaller appliances in outage

I saw a nice 7600kw inverter generator at Costco for $900 this week.

 

[MacO512]

I am not sure there is any definitive proof that increased cycling damages modern EV batteries substantially. V2H helps in areas of California where we pay the highest rate per KWH (of the lower 48) and they are reducing NEM %. It allows a Rivian owner to use their 135Kw (large pack) R1 rather than buy power walls

Yeah I understand that need. Now there are plenty of studies that show NMC batteries like the Rivian uses where cycling has a degradation impact. Temperature is probably #1 impact then state of charge (I always store vehicles at 50% charge). Those are the three main factors. If your not planning to keep the vehicle beyond 4 years or so that doesn't matter though.

Personally I'd just buy a Ecoflow, or Litime LIFEPO for that use case.

Now if you view the $6500 V2H charger (before any install/electrical panel costs) as an early adopter fee and plan to consider V2H once there is a big drop in price I can see wanting to have some progress on V2H.

 

[MacO512]

I agree that the existing V2H setups are too expensive when they can be duplicated with a $2,000 inverter.
However, batteries are not that cheap yet. About $200-$300/kWh which would make a 40 kWh home battery $8,000 - $ 12,000.
If I didn't already have a home battery and inverter, I would go with a home inverter (with solar and generator input such as the EG4 models) and hope that Rivian provides a split phase output in future models. Alternatively, even the existing 1500 Watt 120 v output would get you by in a pinch if it was used to "trickle charge" a home battery. (This could provide up to 36 kWh a day which is lots more than most homes require.)

Great solution! Yeah could probably get by fine with 8kWh lifepo, big 7-10k ish inverter - then have Rivian keep the lifepo topped off via 120v.

I just think most big truck/SUV like the Rivian in the future will all have 240v outlets... so seems silly to me to throw many thousands at a house electrical system upgrade that won't be needed on your next vehicle.

 

[mrose]

Yeah I understand that need. Now there are plenty of studies that show NMC batteries like the Rivian uses where cycling has a degradation impact. Temperature is probably #1 impact then state of charge (I always store vehicles at 50% charge). Those are the three main factors. If your not planning to keep the vehicle beyond 4 years or so that doesn't matter though.

Personally I'd just buy a Ecoflow, or Litime LIFEPO for that use case.

Now if you view the $6500 V2H charger (before any install/electrical panel costs) as an early adopter fee and plan to consider V2H once there is a big drop in price I can see wanting to have some progress on V2H.

I get it, I don’t plan on keeping my R1 more than 4 years anyway.
I am pretty sure V2H was a marketing lie by Rivian anyway as they discussed when trying to sell cars and then went mute. I doubt they have any intention of actually building or allowing V2H bidirectional charging.

 

[MacO512]

I get it, I don’t plan on keeping my R1 more than 4 years anyway.
I am pretty sure V2H was a marketing lie by Rivian anyway as they discussed when trying to sell cars and then went mute. I doubt they have any intention of actually building or allowing V2H bidirectional charging.

Did anyone actually buy a Rivian because of V2H?

I guess maybe some people that were on the edge or debating with an ICE vehicle maybe then leaned to Rivian. I just can't imagine a feature that is not yet available would be a huge draw for people to buy an $80k+ vehicle. Certainly would help with deposits or such, maybe help with an IPO.

Personally I've been happy with all my interactions at Rivian. I mean they make tons of mistakes, as a stockholder I was pretty concerned they delivered me my vehicle without me or the lender paying for it yet. But I don't think there is any nefarious intentions by anyone. Been way better than any other car company I've worked with.

I was really hoping for tank turns and we never ended up getting that either.

I just think all these ideas are 100x easier to consider doing and research doing but MUCH more difficult to get across the finish line out to production.

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