Rivian please adopt Tesla charging standard

tesla & rivian same charging style to


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Fuelsipper

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Please ask Tesla & get permission to use identical tesla charging setup including use of the supercharging stations help bring EV owners together not split apart by brand. No range anxiety when you work together (rivian&tesla) cheers.
 

sdTom

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voted no. tesla is using its own charging cable nobody else is using. they may be in lead but electrify america and others will catch up. plus, for those owning homes you're charging at home 95% of the time.

Rivian picked CCS standard which is becoming the standard/most popular, happy with that.
 

Aurum

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Yes, even Tesla has begun equipping all their super chargers in Europe with CCS standard. I hope this will come to US as well.
 

Hmp10

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From the get go, Elon Musk at Tesla made its superchargers an open standard (i. e., non-proprietary) so that any EV maker could use them. It was part of his early ambition to speed the adoption of electric vehicles by all manufacturers. No one took him up on the offer, and different charging standards have continued to proliferate.

Fortunately (for non-diesel owners, anyway), VW got itself into a global emissions scandal. Part of its settlement with the U.S. government to avoid criminal prosecution was to invest $2 billion in a nationwide charging network, dubbed Electrify America. That network can be used to charge any electric vehicle (even a Tesla, with the proper adapter). It's coming on line surprisingly quickly, and it will have up to 350 kW charging capacity at every highway station, none of which will be more than 120 miles apart from another.

I'll keep using Tesla superchargers on road trips as long as I have my current car, which came with free lifetime charging. However, if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the Electrify America network long term. Lucid Motors -- which appears to be the other best bet for new EV startup besides Rivian, and which will hit the market with its Air sedan about the time Rivians go on sale -- has partnered with Electrify America.
 

A Hawk

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Rivian already decided on the CCS charging standard so that's not going change at this point and I'm glad they're going with CCS. Tesla will be going it alone with their standard and while that seems the most common right now since they're really the only EV game in town, once all the major manufacturers come with their lineup of EV models using CCS, that will be the most common and convenient charging standard.
 

RefugeEV

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However, if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the Electrify America network long term. Lucid Motors -- which appears to be the other best bet for new EV startup besides Rivian, and which will hit the market with its Air sedan about the time Rivians go on sale -- has partnered with Electrify America.
I'd bet on Electrify America too. Porsche has also partnered with Electrify America and is offering 3 years of unlimited charging for owners of their upcoming Taycan sedan.
 

Electronaut

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Sounds like Electrify America charging station proliferation is going to make big jumps this year:

"Electrify America will have more than 300 highway stations in 42 states and another 184 sites in 17 metro areas. Each location will have an average of five charging dispensers, with some having as many as 10. In all, Electrify America says 484 locations will be installed or under construction by July 1. The company is expected to build out a second phase beginning July 2019.

ELECTRIFY_AMERICA_Nationwide-Network-Map.jpg


The highway stations will have a minimum of two 350 kW chargers per site, with additional chargers delivering up to 150 kW. Charging dispensers at metro locations will have 150 kilowatts of power.

The highway stations will be spaced along multiple routes — as can be seen in the map above — and no more than 120 miles from each other. The distance between highway stations will average 70 miles."
 

Hmp10

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And this is just Phase I (to be completed late this year) of what are going to be four phases by 2024.

I wonder how long it will be before gas stations start installing charging stations. If I were an oil company that owned a lot of gas stations or just a station owner, I'd be worried. (Saudi Arabia is already anticipating the end of its oil hegemony and through its sovereign wealth fund is investing heavily in electric vehicle development to keep the cash flowing their way.) And gas stations are ideally-suited as charging sites. They are at almost every interstate exit and usually sell food so people can snack while waiting for their cars to charge.
 

Alan Burns

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BP, Shell and Chevron have already announced they would be supporting EV charging by adding chargers to existing fuel stations and building electric only stations. None of those companies currently do business in Montana.
 

Alan Burns

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Highlights from the Electrify America site. Charging at $.30-$.35 per minute @ 350 kwh. Each minute adds about 9 miles and the charge time will be about 30 minutes.

The map shows ph1 to be completed by mid 2019. There will be more phases and $2 billion will be invested including $800 million of that in California. It looks like they think ranchers and farmers will not be early EV adapters or will handle charging back at the ranch given the huge gap in service across most of Montana, all of Wyoming, both Dakotas, northern Nebraska and Minnesota. That includes a lot of Interstate miles so lets hope ph2 gets some of those covered.

This population is called the 'flyover people' and tend to be ignored by marketing departments.
 

Hmp10

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What kind of charging infrastructure is in your area? Will Electrify America be coming there soon?
 

Alan Burns

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According to the EA map posted, by mid 2019 Montana should have charging stations at St Regis(?), Missoula, Butte and Dillon or Lima. These follow the north/south I-90/I-15 corridor. The connection is from the Pacific Northwest thru to Salt Lake and Denver. Missing in MT are Billings, the largest city, Great Falls, Miles City, Helena, Bozeman and both national parks which both see millions of visitors each summer.

Perhaps ph2 will fill in some holes by 2020 or another independent company will step up. You might think the state power monopoly Northwest Energy with service to nearly every city and burg in the state would step up.
 

Hmp10

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I've had a Tesla since 2015, and it's my preferred car for local driving. I've run errands for five hours in heavy traffic across two counties and never returned home with less than 80 miles of remaining range. There is no way any amount of local driving is a problem for me. However, taking it on the road is another matter.

My brother has a new Tesla Model 3. He lives in Atlanta and, in his excitement with the car, he's driven it down to visit me in Naples twice. There are plenty of Tesla superchargers along the way, and he's able to skip every other one to make the trip. Even so, he's found that charging adds so much time to the trip (about 2 hours to a 10-hour drive) that his enthusiasm for using the car on road trips is fast waning. He's coming down next week and decided to fly.

There are two issues with using today's electric cars for long road trips: the availability of charging stations AND the time it takes to charge. The first issue is rapidly improving, but we've got further to go with the second. (I sometimes drive my Tesla across the state from Naples to Miami. There is a supercharger station with eight ports on the route just outside of Miami that I use to charge for the return trip. Twice I've found Teslas plugged in to all eight, and I've had to wait a few minutes for a port to open. Also, the more cars plugged in at once, the slower the charging speed for all. In even the best circumstances, this charging adds 20-25 minutes to a round trip that is only about 3 hours in an ICE car.)

Electrify America's 350 kW charging stations will help, but only once batteries are developed that can make use of that capacity.

There's also another troubling issue growing. Several states have had reports of posses of pickup truck drivers gathering to block Tesla charging stations, and recently several Tesla superchargers have been vandalized by cutting the charging cables. As electric vehicles become more common and resentment against them grows in some quarters, this problem may grow, too.
 
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Alan Burns

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Nice observations. My Terrain gets about 400 miles on a fill so it is close to the Rivian in range on a road trip. I used to do 800 mile days back in my 20s, 30s and 40s but I don't see much over 500 miles any more and the idea of getting out of the rig in about 300+ miles for a sit down meal or a short walk seems to be appealing especially to keep blood circulation up.

The blockage of chargers by ICE vehicles is downright stupid and cruel and I don't understand what these drivers are trying to accompolish. A good set of side cutters on 4 valve stems leaves a message but I hope I would never stoop that low and it just escalates the problem and leaves the charging station blocked. Some states and cities are passing laws against said blockage so then it is a matter of getting an officer out or the charging station owner to call for a tow truck to get the rigs moved.

I just went to EA again and they say they have a charger in operation at one of the WalMarts in Missoula. I will need to do a drive by.

Rivian says their rigs are ready for 800 volt charging when that becomes available. I guess that means the batteries will handle anything available now.
 

Hmp10

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WalMarts seem to be a preferred location for EA chargers. A lot of them are going in at WalMarts.

Unfortunately, I doubt you'll actually see anything like 400 miles of range on any Rivian when driving in realistic highway conditions. I posted about this on another thread, but here it is again if you haven't seen it (boredom alert):

The claimed EPA ranges of the Rivians will be good for comparison to competing electric vehicles' range claims, but they will not accurately represent the range you'll actually get in real-world driving.

Rivian is using the 2170 cells and, like almost all other current lithium ion batteries, they cannot be charged to full capacity often without accelerated degradation of the battery. For everyday driving, they should be charged up to only about 85% of full charge, with full charging reserved only for long road trips where you might need every mile of range to get from one charging station to another.

So, in everyday use, a 400-mile range really translates to about 340 miles of range . . . and that's just for starters.

Battery ranges are calculated in ideal conditions. For instance, Tesla calculates their highway ranges based on steady-state driving at 65 mph in warm, dry weather on flat roads with no accessories (A/C, stereo, etc.) running and no windows open. Such conditions are rarely encountered for long. (Cars are rated this way because, to increase repeatability, the EPA puts cars on dynamometers instead of testing them on real roads.)

I sometimes drive my Tesla across Alligator Alley, a flat, straight stretch of interstate highway with light traffic skirting the north edge of the Everglades. Several times I have set the cruise control at 80 mph with the windows up and the A/C running and used roadway mile markers for calculation. I have found that in those conditions I use up 10 miles of indicated range for every 6 miles of actual road travel.

My car (a Model S P90D) has an EPA-rated range of 257 miles. Starting a trip with an 85% charge and driving 80 mph thus yields a realistic range of 131 miles (257 x .85 x .6) on a road trip in south Florida. The only way I could go further without recharging is to charge up to 100% and/or drive considerably slower (and at 65 mph, I would be mowed down on Florida interstates).

Another factor missing is that Rivian hasn't yet released any drag coefficients for its vehicles, which is a considerable factor in electric driving range. My Tesla comes in at 0.24, which is one of the lowest of any production vehicle. The combination of the Rivians' more squared off fronts and larger surface areas suggests their total drag will be somewhat higher. While its drag is already accounted for in rated range, that is only at the road speed at which the range is calculated. If you drive faster, a car with a higher drag is going to lose range at a higher rate than a car with lower drag.

Consider this: the Lucid Air -- a low, sleek sedan -- is claiming a 400-mile range with a 130 kW battery pack and 1,000 total horsepower, while Rivian is claiming the same range with a 180 kW battery pack and 700 horsepower. That's how much difference weight and aerodynamics can make in range.

All told, Rivians will have very good range for the types of vehicles they are . . . but I doubt if anyone is going to see anything like the advertised ranges unless they're trying really, really hard on just the right road on just the right day.
 

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