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Count Orlok

Count Orlok

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accidents happen especially on a complex line like Rivian's running. The number of complaints reported in the story doesn't seem excessive to me compared to other manufacturers. To me the greater concern is the claim garbage wiring was repurposed.
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Count Orlok

Count Orlok

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The UAW is nowhere near as corrupt as Elon himself.
^^^bingo^^^

although he is an amazing salesman. I mean he convinced millions of people that the Model X is an SUV and not a hatchback.
 

Jrschaar

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I can vouch for a lot of the employees who filed the complaints. I can also vouch for the 3 named employees in the original Bloomberg article.

Simply put, the biggest message to take away from the article is a plea for workplace safety. If all management would listen to employees who speak up with critical issues, conversations to the media wouldn't need to happen.

The complaints are coming from people who have either witnessed the issues firsthand or have sustained the injuries themselves. It wasn't just voluntary organizers submitting the OSHA complaints. It's coming from employees who don't want to see others get injured or worse.

Also, the amount of complaints doesn't reflect the multitude of employees who share the same concerns but are afraid to speak up in fear of losing their job or getting into trouble, so we speak on their behalf. Rivian wants to minimize the safety incidents to a just a number. My co-workers are more than a number, they have names and families. They worry about safety when going to work every day and that doesn't change because the company says it looks good on paper.

There is no disputing that I'm one of the biggest supporters of Rivian unionizing, and with good reason, but this goes much bigger than an agenda. This is not merely "a union tactic". It's a human tactic to fight for the right to be safe in the workplace.
 

Donald Stanfield

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I can vouch for a lot of the employees who filed the complaints. I can also vouch for the 3 named employees in the original Bloomberg article.

Simply put, the biggest message to take away from the article is a plea for workplace safety. If all management would listen to employees who speak up with critical issues, conversations to the media wouldn't need to happen.

The complaints are coming from people who have either witnessed the issues firsthand or have sustained the injuries themselves. It wasn't just voluntary organizers submitting the OSHA complaints. It's coming from employees who don't want to see others get injured or worse.

Also, the amount of complaints doesn't reflect the multitude of employees who share the same concerns but are afraid to speak up in fear of losing their job or getting into trouble, so we speak on their behalf. Rivian wants to minimize the safety incidents to a just a number. My co-workers are more than a number, they have names and families. They worry about safety when going to work every day and that doesn't change because the company says it looks good on paper.

There is no disputing that I'm one of the biggest supporters of Rivian unionizing, and with good reason, but this goes much bigger than an agenda. This is not merely "a union tactic". It's a human tactic to fight for the right to be safe in the workplace.
The union isn't going to make your job any safer than OSHA already can. If it was really about safety you'd work with the government instead of working to strong-arm Rivian. It's about money, and you should at least admit it.
 

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Random person who has never posted before on this forum and only comments in a single thread can vouch for the employees.


Well I was skeptical before but now I'm convinced!
 

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I can vouch for a lot of the employees who filed the complaints. I can also vouch for the 3 named employees in the original Bloomberg article.

Simply put, the biggest message to take away from the article is a plea for workplace safety. If all management would listen to employees who speak up with critical issues, conversations to the media wouldn't need to happen.

The complaints are coming from people who have either witnessed the issues firsthand or have sustained the injuries themselves. It wasn't just voluntary organizers submitting the OSHA complaints. It's coming from employees who don't want to see others get injured or worse.

Also, the amount of complaints doesn't reflect the multitude of employees who share the same concerns but are afraid to speak up in fear of losing their job or getting into trouble, so we speak on their behalf. Rivian wants to minimize the safety incidents to a just a number. My co-workers are more than a number, they have names and families. They worry about safety when going to work every day and that doesn't change because the company says it looks good on paper.

There is no disputing that I'm one of the biggest supporters of Rivian unionizing, and with good reason, but this goes much bigger than an agenda. This is not merely "a union tactic". It's a human tactic to fight for the right to be safe in the workplace.
Lots of companies have Really Great! OH&S policies and systems. Lots of the same companies have shitty supervisors who make their employees ignore those policies...even in a unionized environment.

A Union won’t necessarily protect welder Wendy from a bad supervisor who says they don’t need PAPR, especially when the supervisor has seniority.

In my company we‘ve dealt with CAW, iron workers, USW….even UBC.

some unions are better at advocating for their members and doing what unions are intended to do than others, with further variance at the local level.

Even at a union shop, I’ve seen “it doesn’t count as lost time if nobody sees the ambulance go to the back door” happen.
 

COdogman

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The union isn't going to make your job any safer than OSHA already can. If it was really about safety you'd work with the government instead of working to strong-arm Rivian. It's about money, and you should at least admit it.
OSHA is only as good as the current congress/ president wants it to be. It's basically toothless and it's penalties rarely if ever effect any change on a large company. If it truly had the independence to do what it is tasked to do I would agree with you. But if that were true there would never have been a need for Unions in the first place.
 

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OSHA is only as good as the current congress/ president wants it to be. It's basically toothless and it's penalties rarely if ever effect any change on a large company. If it truly had the independence to do what it is tasked to do I would agree with you. But if that were true there would never have been a need for Unions in the first place.
I have to disagree here. I was a member in good standing of a trade union for 12 years, and I also worked the same job in a non union capacity and the only thing that changes the safety culture is the size of the company. You're right that OSHA isn't a universal answer to all companies, but they ARE the answer to big ones. OSHA is not at all toothless, and the fines they can levy are insane.

As such they really only go after companies that can pay said fines. Rivian would be one of these companies thanks to their ample cash reserves. Not to mention that a culture of safety is to the benefit of Rivian to start with thanks to insurance and a little thing called EMR. Experience Modifier Rate or EMR is the metric that insurance companies use to calculate your risk level. It's calculated based on accidents per hours worked. If your rate goes to 1 or above your insurance becomes extremely expensive to the point of eventually putting you out of business. It could be the difference between profitability and failure.

The bigger the company the more seriously they take safety and in this day and age unions do little to nothing to ensure safe working conditions. Like I said, I was the member of a construction trade union and they did nothing to ensure you were safe. They did have a use, but it was more financial than it was anything else. The union I was a member of bargained our wages better than I could have alone, and the union rules on breaks and what sort of tools I was expected to haul in a personal vehicle were really helpful.

I'm not at all saying all unions are useless, or even that any unions are useless but they aren't about safety. They are about money and benefits for their workers. Whether or not this is a bad thing depends on what the compensation is already at the Rivian plant relative to what a union auto worker makes. It's also worth noting that the union itself really only cares about one thing, and that's getting more members. The more members they have the more money they make and the more power their organization has.

I don't trust people pushing for a union to be completely honest in their reasoning simply because it's in a union's best interests to bring more workers into the fold. Some unions are worse than others, with UAW being one of the most bloated ones. It's certainly not as simple of a thing as the union makes it out to be.
 

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I have to disagree here. I was a member in good standing of a trade union for 12 years, and I also worked the same job in a non union capacity and the only thing that changes the safety culture is the size of the company. You're right that OSHA isn't a universal answer to all companies, but they ARE the answer to big ones. OSHA is not at all toothless, and the fines they can levy are insane.

As such they really only go after companies that can pay said fines. Rivian would be one of these companies thanks to their ample cash reserves. Not to mention that a culture of safety is to the benefit of Rivian to start with thanks to insurance and a little thing called EMR. Experience Modifier Rate or EMR is the metric that insurance companies use to calculate your risk level. It's calculated based on accidents per hours worked. If your rate goes to 1 or above your insurance becomes extremely expensive to the point of eventually putting you out of business. It could be the difference between profitability and failure.

The bigger the company the more seriously they take safety and in this day and age unions do little to nothing to ensure safe working conditions. Like I said, I was the member of a construction trade union and they did nothing to ensure you were safe. They did have a use, but it was more financial than it was anything else. The union I was a member of bargained our wages better than I could have alone, and the union rules on breaks and what sort of tools I was expected to haul in a personal vehicle were really helpful.

I'm not at all saying all unions are useless, or even that any unions are useless but they aren't about safety. They are about money and benefits for their workers. Whether or not this is a bad thing depends on what the compensation is already at the Rivian plant relative to what a union auto worker makes. It's also worth noting that the union itself really only cares about one thing, and that's getting more members. The more members they have the more money they make and the more power their organization has.

I don't trust people pushing for a union to be completely honest in their reasoning simply because it's in a union's best interests to bring more workers into the fold. Some unions are worse than others, with UAW being one of the most bloated ones. It's certainly not as simple of a thing as the union makes it out to be.
Unions are certainly not perfect and I agree that a better arrangement for all would likely be if the company and regulators just followed best practices to begin with. But we all know that is unlikely to happen (mostly because it never has happened). Most companies put profits first and some even plan for OSHA fines as a cost of doing business. I'm sure there are examples of OSHA forcing change at a large company but I think more often than that there are examples of small fines for serious infractions and little change over time.

A recent example would be their literal absence during the first stages of COVID when thousands of factory and meat packing workers were getting seriously sick and many dying. They were nowhere to be found. But this was an intentional act - OSHA had the fewest number of inspectors it EVER had during that time so they conveniently could not visit facilities that were putting their workers at great risk. A few places got fined but here in CO the largest meat plant in the US got fined $15,000 or about $10 per worker who got sick. Then what happened? JBS refused to pay the fine and nothing....

I love the idea of OSHA and wish it had the independence it needed to create change in all workplaces. But as long as they are at the mercy of congress and presidents for funding and staffing it will be on a permanent roller coaster of effectiveness.

Unions need to be held accountable by their members too. They definitely have their own issues. But I have to admit if I worked at an Amazon warehouse without air conditioning and was forced to waste my entire break going through a security check so I didn't actually have time to eat or piss, I would be looking to unionize too. Until these companies start treating people like humans there will always be a place for unions.

I see your point about insurance rates - one would think that might get the attention of a company but I would honestly be surprised how often that is a factor.
 

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If you're at rivian reading this, just know you're not alone and many people feel the same way.

Automotive unions are corrupt but also protect the workers from say, the failure to staff a true 3rd shift (so you work 10-11 hours a day under a ton of physical+mental stress to meet production goals) or having one day off a year or constantly getting called in to stand around. Glassdoor reviews have good insight of rivian's struggles to keep the line properly staffed. Complaints result in termination... meaning Rivian is practically rolling the red carpet out for the uaw.

Proof available to my experience via DM for the skeptics. I didn't sign an NDA because the rivian culture is an absolute joke.. just like any other company, to be fair.
 

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Unions are certainly not perfect and I agree that a better arrangement for all would likely be if the company and regulators just followed best practices to begin with. But we all know that is unlikely to happen (mostly because it never has happened). Most companies put profits first and some even plan for OSHA fines as a cost of doing business. I'm sure there are examples of OSHA forcing change at a large company but I think more often than that there are examples of small fines for serious infractions and little change over time.

A recent example would be their literal absence during the first stages of COVID when thousands of factory and meat packing workers were getting seriously sick and many dying. They were nowhere to be found. But this was an intentional act - OSHA had the fewest number of inspectors it EVER had during that time so they conveniently could not visit facilities that were putting their workers at great risk. A few places got fined but here in CO the largest meat plant in the US got fined $15,000 or about $10 per worker who got sick. Then what happened? JBS refused to pay the fine and nothing....

I love the idea of OSHA and wish it had the independence it needed to create change in all workplaces. But as long as they are at the mercy of congress and presidents for funding and staffing it will be on a permanent roller coaster of effectiveness.

Unions need to be held accountable by their members too. They definitely have their own issues. But I have to admit if I worked at an Amazon warehouse without air conditioning and was forced to waste my entire break going through a security check so I didn't actually have time to eat or piss, I would be looking to unionize too. Until these companies start treating people like humans there will always be a place for unions.

I see your point about insurance rates - one would think that might get the attention of a company but I would honestly be surprised how often that is a factor.
Maybe it's different in construction vs manufacturing but we always felt the threat of OSHA as did our companies. Compliance with safety rules was a daily conversation and working within OSHA mandates was standard practice. As the jobs got bigger or the companies you worked for were big enough the rules got more strict in a direct correlation.
 

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Maybe it's different in construction vs manufacturing but we always felt the threat of OSHA as did our companies. Compliance with safety rules was a daily conversation and working within OSHA mandates was standard practice. As the jobs got bigger or the companies you worked for were big enough the rules got more strict in a direct correlation.
Well that's good to hear. At least someone is taking it seriously. I take safety seriously at my business because I don't want my workers to get injured both for their own sake and because I'd rather not pay a bunch of workers comp claims if they can be avoided. It seems like a simple decision but some places just don't care. I've worked in warehouses that were wonderful and safe and others that were a disaster waiting to happen. It all starts at the top, as I'm sure you know...
 

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Glassdoor reviews have good insight of rivian's struggles to keep the line properly staffed.
...
That's happening in literally EVERY manufacturing/assembly factory.
 

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Well that's good to hear. At least someone is taking it seriously. I take safety seriously at my business because I don't want my workers to get injured both for their own sake and because I'd rather not pay a bunch of workers comp claims if they can be avoided. It seems like a simple decision but some places just don't care. I've worked in warehouses that were wonderful and safe and others that were a disaster waiting to happen. It all starts at the top, as I'm sure you know...
My employees joke about how seriously I take safety at work. Reporting every injury no matter how minor, having quality first aid supplies, making sure that materials and equipment used are in good condition.

In my business now injuries are a really low risk but I can’t help but carry with me the safety culture of construction. People would find it far less funny if they had to look for pieces of a coworker’s hand or had a death on their job site. Safety for sure isn’t a joke and even a momentary lapse is enough.

I’ve had a few close calls myself and got extremely lucky. I also don’t see how any business worth their salt shortcuts safety. Usually those places don’t last too long.
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