Rivian is more tech company than car company [article]

[kenyee]

Interesting article on Rivian's tech:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/...pany-than-car-company-and-thats-a-good-thing/

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[COdogman]

Good article.

CarPlay *Trigger warning*

 

[DD4ST]

I thought this was a decent article too. But IMO there is another reason Rivian has a tougher path than legacy automakers than just being small. That is learning how to manufacture physical quality. Most legacy car companies have been building cars for many decades and have honed quality inn fit/finish, suspension, engines, etc., immensely. They may still have some issues but have a track record they can point to dispel naysayers. I’m old enough to remember when US manufacturer’s quality was perceived to be bad in the 70’s and they started a dramatic turn around. This has engendered in the public an expectation of physical quality based on what they have lived with. In the digital realm, however, people are more forgiving because legacy automobile technology has lagged the possible. But that is what they are used to. IMO this means Rivian gets less of a bump from having great software then the dip they get from fit/finish, etc., problems from the general public. Plus they have little track record. This makes their job harder than legacy automakers. Not saying they won’t succeed, but they still have some traditional challenges.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

"More tech company than car company" is precisely why legacy auto struggle to wrap their heads around "software-defined" cars. They approach EVs as cars with software and electric drivetrain, rather than tech platforms that happen to be cars.

 

[Batman]

I agree with that but if they are not selling their tech to other companies then they are still a car company. Now I know VW "bought" their tech by investing in their company but other companies will have to start buying their tech in order for the stock to trade like a tech stock.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I agree with that but if they are not selling their tech to other companies then they are still a car company. Now I know VW "bought" their tech by investing in their company but other companies will have to start buying their tech in order for the stock to trade like a tech stock.

It's not just "VW". It's "VW Group" and all brands under it.

 

[ThirteenElectrics]

Oh no, another Tesla-like puff piece. "They're not a car company, they're an <X>!". Great.

Rivian pays their software developers terribly, and the stock is in the toilet, so there's no stock based compensation to make up for it. So if they're a tech company, they really suck at it. The quality of their tech. reflects what they pay their employees. Their driver assist is bad, their infotainment randomly reboots, their nav. is terrible, they've bricked cars on one of their software updates, PAAK never worked (for me), they self-brick on 12V battery failure.

I would much rather buy my cars from a car company, as it's a much more reliable experience. Cars need to be dependable. That's their core function, getting you from point A to point B. If you want to geek out, buy some crypto, watch your Playstation auto-update, or buy a kit car.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I thought this was a decent article too. But IMO there is another reason Rivian has a tougher path than legacy automakers than just being small. That is learning how to manufacture physical quality. Most legacy car companies have been building cars for many decades and have honed quality inn fit/finish, suspension, engines, etc., immensely. They may still have some issues but have a track record they can point to dispel naysayers. I’m old enough to remember when US manufacturer’s quality was perceived to be bad in the 70’s and they started a dramatic turn around. This has engendered in the public an expectation of physical quality based on what they have lived with. In the digital realm, however, people are more forgiving because legacy automobile technology has lagged the possible. But that is what they are used to. IMO this means Rivian gets less of a bump from having great software then the dip they get from fit/finish, etc., problems from the general public. Plus they have little track record. This makes their job harder than legacy automakers. Not saying they won’t succeed, but they still have some traditional challenges.

This is a fair point, but the expectations will likely shift as more software-defined vehicles enter the realm. I know that I am constantly disappointed when I see any other manufacturer besides Tesla and try to use their software. My wife's BMW has the same interface it had when it shipped in '23. As the benefits of a software forward vehicle are realized the expectations will come with it. Most people live tech focused lives already, so when they realize they can get this in a vehicle they will want it and eventually expect it.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

This is a fair point, but the expectations will likely shift as more software-defined vehicles enter the realm. I know that I am constantly disappointed when I see any other manufacturer besides Tesla and try to use their software. My wife's BMW has the same interface it had when it shipped in '23. As the benefits of a software forward vehicle are realized the expectations will come with it. Most people live tech focused lives already, so when they realize they can get this in a vehicle they will want it and eventually expect it.

And instead of investing in software development, many legacy OEMs are still dicking around with novelty ideas for faking a ICE. They just don't get it. https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-considering-a-fake-manual-for-evs-with-haptic-shift-feedback

 

[DD4ST]

And instead of investing in software development, many legacy OEMs are still dicking around with novelty ideas for faking a ICE. They just don't get it. https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-considering-a-fake-manual-for-evs-with-haptic-shift-feedback

Interesting. I sort of get it that legacy auto makers want to mimic their legacy vehicles. There is brand loyalty out there and they want to keep folks in their comfort zone so they don’t start looking elsewhere. There are also people out there that really like the traditional driving experience. They like to shift gears and hear the roar of the engine. Combine that with the torque of an EV and you’ve got a real exciting ride. But honestly, I don’t know if those folks are in the majority. While I agree with some of what other manufacturers keep (like physical climate controls), I think having a fake gear shift is stupid for EV’s.

 

[mkg3]

It appears that its lot easier for a tech company to wrap hardware around software-defined vehicle, than an auto company to stuff software into the hardware.

Just take a look at Xiaomi has done with SU7. They stole and combined the styling of McLaren 750S lights and implanted onto Taycan body replica, then priced it at less than $50K. What legacy auto company can do that in the very short amount of time that Xiaomi did it in.

Maybe if enough people believe Rivian is a tech company (not a lifestyle auto company), then their multiples on the sales would go up and help the stock price.. One of the downgrades this last week has it down to $6.50/share price target.

Just wait for Rivian to come out with a humanoid robot next. Maybe it will pitch a tent and start a camp fire for demonstration.

 

[Shavaloo]

Puleez…..until Rivian can turn people into bits and bytes that can be sent down fiber optic cables, they’ll always be a car company. All the software in the world doesn’t change the economics, costs, and gross margin realities of building an actual physical car that rolls on four wheels. They will never ever have 90% margin on a product that can scale to infinity without costs. Sure, these are computers on wheels, whatever. Just like Tesla, they still have to make a well made car at a price that enough consumers can afford or they’ll go under. Software, robots, robotaxis, shmobots. It’s a car company and will always have car company multiples. Just like Tesla will after it emerges from bankruptcy.

 

[TomServo2112]

Interesting article on Rivian's tech:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/...pany-than-car-company-and-thats-a-good-thing/

"Rivian's more tech now, than car. Twisted and evil." - Obi-Wan, maybe.

 

[klaopune]

Oh no, another Tesla-like puff piece. "They're not a car company, they're an <X>!". Great.

Rivian pays their software developers terribly, and the stock is in the toilet, so there's no stock based compensation to make up for it. So if they're a tech company, they really suck at it. The quality of their tech. reflects what they pay their employees. Their driver assist is bad, their infotainment randomly reboots, their nav. is terrible, they've bricked cars on one of their software updates, PAAK never worked (for me), they self-brick on 12V battery failure.

I would much rather buy my cars from a car company, as it's a much more reliable experience. Cars need to be dependable. That's their core function, getting you from point A to point B. If you want to geek out, buy some crypto, watch your Playstation auto-update, or buy a kit car.












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I laughed way too hard at the "buy some crypto or let your PS auto update" bit Totally agree though, it’s like some of these companies forget that cars aren’t gadgets you can just reboot when they act up. I test drove a Rivian a few months back, and while the design was slick, the tech felt... anxious, if that makes sense? Like I kept expecting something to freeze or crash mid-drive.

Honestly, I love tech, but I don’t need my car acting like a beta app with wheels. Give me smth boring and reliable any day, i'll save the experimenting for my crypto wallet and Steam Deck

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