Rivian is doing itself a disservice by not publishing a charging curve

SeaGeo

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This Is going to be a little bit of a hot take, but the little snippets of charging screens that the employees keep showing at charging stations is doing more harm than good. Much of the time they're pulling like 50kw, and seemingly thinks that's fine. And then when one does show a reasonable charging rate (like 185kw), they also have their car set to charge to 100%, so the car says it's going to take over an hour to finish charging. Rivian's unwillingness to publish a curve combined with this is starting to have random people just assume the truck is very slow to charge.

I know they're excited, and trying to be helpful, but without having a proper charging curve from Rivian, people are starting to assume the worst.
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Blur1t

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This Is going to be a little bit of a hot take, but the little snippets of charging screens that the employees keep showing at curious charging stations is doing more harm than good. Much of the time they're pulling like 50kw, and seemingly things that's fine. And then when one does show a reasonable charging rate (like 185kw), they also have their car set to charge to 100%, so the car says it's going to take over an hour to finish charging. Rivian's unwillingness to publish a curve combined with this is starting to have random people just assume the truck is very slow to charge.

I know they're excited, and trying to be helpful, but without having a proper charging curve from Rivian people are starting to assume the worst.
Good point.
 
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SeaGeo

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Perhaps. But the people you are worried about drawing the wrong conclusions probably wouldn't understand a charge curve either.
They are both looking at peak, and time to charge. I've engaged with a few of them over the last week or so.
 

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I understand your overall point but I will say that I have yet to see any of these screen shots, and I am pretty obsessive.

My point being that a) they don’t have that much reach b) I being that pre order holders skew towards first time EV (and truck) buyers - a good chunk of the folks on this forum are not representative of the typical preorder holder and aren’t obsessing over finding every bit of information on the Internet.
 
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SeaGeo

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I understand your overall point but I will say that I have yet to see any of these screen shots, and I am pretty obsessive.

My point being that a) they don’t have that much reach b) I being that pre order holders skew towards first time EV (and truck) buyers - a good chunk of the folks on this forum are not representative of the typical preorder holder and aren’t obsessing over finding every bit of information on the Internet.
It's more the random people on Reddit or IG who are following them. BUT it's good to hear you aren't naturally running into them.
 

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This Is going to be a little bit of a hot take, but the little snippets of charging screens that the employees keep showing at charging stations is doing more harm than good. Much of the time they're pulling like 50kw, and seemingly thinks that's fine. And then when one does show a reasonable charging rate (like 185kw), they also have their car set to charge to 100%, so the car says it's going to take over an hour to finish charging. Rivian's unwillingness to publish a curve combined with this is starting to have random people just assume the truck is very slow to charge.

I know they're excited, and trying to be helpful, but without having a proper charging curve from Rivian, people are starting to assume the worst.

I agree in the sense the employee charging interactions aren't adding any value. I'd disagree in the sense that few if any other manufacturers detail their own charging curves. A lot of that work is done by media using vehicles provided by the manufacturer. Ultimately we'll see soon enough what real world DC fast charging looks like and I do hope its decent. It would be disappointing if Rivian compounded it's pre-sale issues with post sale fast charging issues.
 

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Finally some constructive criticism from you. Yes! I agree. If brands leave gaps that seem intentional like this, consumers will fill in the gaps for the brand. And some of those consumers will have the wrong understanding.

It's January 2022, and we still don't even know how fast these things charge. Remember when we thought deliveries would happen in July 2021? How naive we were....

You'd think someone would know this by now.



This Is going to be a little bit of a hot take, but the little snippets of charging screens that the employees keep showing at charging stations is doing more harm than good. Much of the time they're pulling like 50kw, and seemingly thinks that's fine. And then when one does show a reasonable charging rate (like 185kw), they also have their car set to charge to 100%, so the car says it's going to take over an hour to finish charging. Rivian's unwillingness to publish a curve combined with this is starting to have random people just assume the truck is very slow to charge.

I know they're excited, and trying to be helpful, but without having a proper charging curve from Rivian, people are starting to assume the worst.
 

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Should they post the charging curve based on a zero percent charge or a 20%. Should it be from Arizona or today in NJ (19 degrees right now). Should it be on a rivian charger or maybe a Juiceboz, or a EA charger.......Way too many variables here. Sorry but the 'charging curve' stuff is done for clicks on YouTube and other websites.

It is capable of X charging rate according to Rivian that is all we need to know from them. The rest of it will be done like very every other manufacturer, by youtubers?
Location, time of year, brand of charger, should not make a difference in the rate of charge unless Rivian isn't properly handling battery conditioning. That they can keep the truck cool while pulling an 11,000 lbs trailer up the mountains on a 110+ degree day says to me that there's basically no condition where they will throttle because of temperature.
 

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This Is going to be a little bit of a hot take, but the little snippets of charging screens that the employees keep showing at charging stations is doing more harm than good. Much of the time they're pulling like 50kw, and seemingly thinks that's fine. And then when one does show a reasonable charging rate (like 185kw), they also have their car set to charge to 100%, so the car says it's going to take over an hour to finish charging. Rivian's unwillingness to publish a curve combined with this is starting to have random people just assume the truck is very slow to charge.

I know they're excited, and trying to be helpful, but without having a proper charging curve from Rivian, people are starting to assume the worst.

I suspect because of their advertised 140 miles in 20 min anything else would be only for us BEV enthusiasts who really want to get into the charge curve. I am betting the majority of the people jumping on board are in fact newish to BEVs and don't know what a Curve this or that is and especially the ones posting to IG who got their truck for the first time show that by example.
 

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This Is going to be a little bit of a hot take, but the little snippets of charging screens that the employees keep showing at charging stations is doing more harm than good. Much of the time they're pulling like 50kw, and seemingly thinks that's fine. And then when one does show a reasonable charging rate (like 185kw), they also have their car set to charge to 100%, so the car says it's going to take over an hour to finish charging. Rivian's unwillingness to publish a curve combined with this is starting to have random people just assume the truck is very slow to charge.

I know they're excited, and trying to be helpful, but without having a proper charging curve from Rivian, people are starting to assume the worst.
SSHHH! Don't you know you can't say stuff like this here? ;)

But, in all seriousness, I have been personally annoyed with this as well. These vehicles have been out since September and there is hardly any information about the charging curve and efficiency/range. There are snippets here and there, but as you mentioned they are very fragmented. The charging data varies from 50KW to 175KW.

I have so many questions regarding charging. Does the R1 precondition the battery when you navigate to a DCFC? On cold days when you precondition the cabin does it precondition the battery as well? What is the charging curve? What is the ideal charging SOC for the battery?

To be fair on Rivian/Rivian Employees, no other manufacturer other than BMW has provided an official charging curve. Even Tesla does not provide it.

Which is why I am really hoping, once these gets in the hand of non-employees, or even forum members here, someone can do some real testing and post some stats, or at the very least reach out to Inside EVs and do a collab for some range/charging/efficiency testing.
 

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@kanundrum, I fall into both categories of new to full BEV and very interested in the charge curve. Thanks to @ajdelange, @SeaGeo, @CommodoreAmiga, @DucRider, yourself and a few others I believe I can evaluate a charging curve and how it will affect my driving experience. I agree a charge curve from Rivian based on ideal conditions is warranted, let the you tubers post on how less than ideal conditions might effect the curve. Don't care what Hyundai or Ford or Tesla for that matter are doing... we're not following them were blazing our own trail.
 

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Should they post the charging curve based on a zero percent charge or a 20%. Should it be from Arizona or today in NJ (19 degrees right now). Should it be on a rivian charger or maybe a Juiceboz, or a EA charger.......Way too many variables here. Sorry but the 'charging curve' stuff is done for clicks on YouTube and other websites.

It is capable of X charging rate according to Rivian that is all we need to know from them. The rest of it will be done like very every other manufacturer, by youtubers?
Rivian can do what BMW did for the i4 and iX. They provided the charging curve and power delivery for both their vehicles,

bmw-i4-2021-leistungs--und-ladekurve-des-i4-m50.jpg
bmw-i4-charge-2021-01-888x444.png
P90423871_lowRes_the-bmw-ix-performan.jpg
 

ajdelange

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To be fair on Rivian/Rivian Employees, no other manufacturer other than BMW has provided an official charging curve. Even Tesla does not provide it.
The reason they don't is because there isn't one. The vehicle manages the charge rate taper according to the conditions that pertain during the particular charging session based on SoC, temperatures etc. As the battery becomes fuller the charge rate will taper. We can go out and measure individual charge profiles and get general ideas about the manufacturer's general approach (i.e. manufacturer X maintains high charge rate to higher SoC than manufacturer Y) but you will learn more by looking at the total time to gain a given amount of charge than by concerning yourself with the curves for your individual charge sessions. For example I know that it will take me about 1% of an hour to pick up 1% SoC. I know that's not true in going from 90% to 91% and I know it's not true in going from 10% to 11% but then I don't do charges in those regions.

Knowing your overall average rate makes planning charging stops very easy.
 
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SeaGeo

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To be fair on Rivian/Rivian Employees, no other manufacturer other than BMW has provided an official charging curve. Even Tesla does not provide it
You know, as I was thinking about this, i know Hyundai did too. And then they're so ubiquitous for the European brands anymore inactually not sure if the other German brands have been sorting their own consistently. I know audi did for the etron.

Sorry but the 'charging curve' stuff is done for clicks on YouTube and other websites.

It is capable of X charging rate according to Rivian that is all we need to know from them. The rest of it will be done like very every other manufacturer, by youtubers?
Other manufacturers disagree, as at least a few provide their own (love BMW did above) or at least facilitate letting their cars get charged during reviews.

Regarding it being "for clicks" I find it really useful to understand what the "best case" expecation for my car is, both from a timing standpoint, and to know when something is limiting the performance.

From a timing standpoint, people don't know how long it's going to take to charge, and the 140 miles/20 minutes value doesn't seem to have resonated.

Using it as a reference curve is useful for setting expectations too. Pulling 50kw at 30% on a 150kw charger? Is that normal? Apparently at least a few current owner think it is based on what they share. Which may be because a lot of them came from a Bolt. It's usually pretty easy to understand if you have a reference curve and battery temp. Hop on an id.4 forum and you'll see a bunch of people who got cars recently were worried that they only charge at like 37kw. Several owners had the same question this month. People with the charging curve and an obd scanner were about to show that the car just wasn't warming up (because the damn thing doesn't precondition). During the summer this year, questions like that were pretty rare because it's pretty reliable, but when things did pop up having the curve was really handy for people.
 
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