Rivian hit with Gender Discrimination Lawsuit by ex-sales and marketing head, Laura Schwab

[aAlpine]

Which reminds me about the lawsuit against Rivian back in 2020 by another employee: https://unicourt.com/case/ca-ora-john-roe-ii-vs-rivian-automotive-llc-1080058

Looks like no updates there yet either? I wasn't able to find anything at least.

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[Longhorngirl]

Things like this move very, very slowly unless there is an early settlement (which is often confidential). If they do not settle, it could be a couple of years before there is any final resolution.

Agreed. Before the case is settled, we should find out whether two of her accusations are true. First, she alleged that she informed management the need to increase price. Second, she said that delivering 1,000 cars was not a feasible goal by end of 2021.

I personally believe that Rivian will increase the price for existing pre-order holders. Most likely a nominal amount like $500-$1,000. And we will see in the 1Q22 earnings report if the goal of 1,000 vehicles delivered was met.

I am not saying that if one or both of these come true, it means that the allegations she has made are true. I would just find it interesting, if they do come true.

One of her other allegations was that she recommended deliveries to employees first, which we know this came true. But, was it her idea that was rejected at first? Not sure, but I find it hard to believe she doesn’t have evidence to back up at least some of her claims.

 

[Rhidan]

Anyone know what happened with this? Been no info in the news.

Expect a response from Rivian on December 16 (unless Rivian gets an extension).

Which reminds me about the lawsuit against Rivian back in 2020 by another employee: https://unicourt.com/case/ca-ora-john-roe-ii-vs-rivian-automotive-llc-1080058

Looks like no updates there yet either? I wasn't able to find anything at least.

Can’t really tell from the docket what happened to this one. Probably settled out of court.

 

[RideAlong]

The Wall.

 

[Rhidan]

Rivian filed something short in the Schwab case last night. Guessing this was a motion asking to extend the deadline to respond. Anyone can pay $15 if they want to see what they actually filed.

12​	PROPOSED ORDER RECEIVED ON 12/16/2021	12/16/2021​	3 pages​	​
11​	PROOF OF ESERVICE FILED BY RIVIAN AUTOMOTIVE, LLC. ON 12/16/2021	12/16/2021​	2 pages​

 

[RideAlong]

It stuck out to me that the roadshow videos were almost all men except for their CFO/HR. Then I remembered how nice Uncle RJ was to kids and potential customers and the environment and didn’t think much more of it. This puts that video in a starkly different context.

HR is full of bitter-n-salty post wall non-engineers .. 'lighten up francis' should be the watch phrase. Teamwork or reflection of me-ism 's ?

 

[dleewla]

Agreed. Before the case is settled, we should find out whether two of her accusations are true. First, she alleged that she informed management the need to increase price. Second, she said that delivering 1,200 cars was not a feasible goal by end of 2021.

interesting that both those points are turning out to be true. on the earnings call it was mentioned multiple times that they are discussing price changes (most likely increases) and Rivian will not able to hit 1000 deliveries this year.

 

[cc84]

.....One of her other allegations was that she recommended deliveries to employees first, which we know this came true.....

This is a comment and not directed towards anyone:

What she did above and made good on, would've been reason enough to fire her, IMO, unless she stated the reason as being specifically for beta testing purposes.

IMO, a corporation should always give employees good and fair incentives, but you don't deny the customer the only product you can sell them and instead offer it to your employees first. If/when the testing was implemented, it should've been thoroughly explained to their pre-order holders.......It didn't happen.

AFAIK, it has never been officially revealed by Rivian that employees are beta testers. This has been repeated so often, that it seems to be taken as fact. Anyone know if Rivian has officially announced their employees as beta testers? I don't know for sure.

......Before the case is settled, we should find out whether two of her accusations are true. First, she alleged that she informed management the need to increase price. Second, she said that delivering 1,000 cars was not a feasible goal by end of 2021.

I personally believe that Rivian will increase the price for existing pre-order holders. Most likely a nominal amount like $500-$1,000. And we will see in the 1Q22 earnings report if the goal of 1,000 vehicles delivered was met.....

I believe she was accurate on Rivian not reaching the goal of a 1,000 vehicles delivered, so I'm holding on to the hope a price increase doesn't affect the pre-order holders, at least those prior to the end of September 2021, otherwise she'll be 2 for 2 in correct predictions. If there is a price increase, my 3 year wait for the Rivian will be conflicted with my principles. I have a tendency to "cut my nose off to spite my face." Not a good quality to have....but I do.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

This is a comment and not directed towards anyone:

What she did above and made good on, would've been reason enough to fire her, IMO, unless she stated the reason as being specifically for beta testing purposes.

After what we've seen with the first "employee" deliveries -- specifically missing/incomplete features and bugs -- I think starting with employees was a smart move. Kudos to her if she was the driving force for that decision. My issue was primarily communications and how Rivian mislead customers -- whether you believe that was intentionally or not. I don't see how Rivian didn't know they weren't going to meet certain self-imposed metrics, yet they continued to tell people they were on track all the way up until they missed the deadline; and they repeated this pattern multiple times. If that's intentional, then that is upsetting. If it's incompetence, then that is concerning. If you insist it is neither, then what does that say about their culture?

IMO, a corporation should always give employees good and fair incentives, but you don't deny the customer the only product you can sell them and instead offer it to your employees first. If/when the testing was implemented, it should've been thoroughly explained to their pre-order holders.......It didn't happen.

I agree with the bolded part of your statement. In retrospect, I think the "beta" period was a smart move, but expectations should have been appropriately set -- and they weren't.

AFAIK, it has never been officially revealed by Rivian that employees are beta testers. This has been repeated so often, that it seems to be taken as fact. Anyone know if Rivian has officially announced their employees as beta testers? I don't know for sure.

No, I think Rivian is insisting that the deliveries were "real". It's a sore subject on these forums, as some agree with that position, and others do not. Most (almost all) people who had guide contacts and were given 2021 dates have been pushed into 2022. I don't see why we shouldn't call this a "beta" period.

I believe she was accurate on Rivian not reaching the goal of a 1,000 vehicles delivered, so I'm holding on to the hope a price increase doesn't affect the pre-order holders, at least those prior to the end of September 2021, otherwise she'll be 2 for 2 in correct predictions. If there is a price increase, my 3 year wait for the Rivian will be conflicted with my principles. I have a tendency to "cut my nose off to spite my face." Not a good quality to have....but I do.

I'm in the same boat. Death by a thousand cuts, in a way; a price hike may be the straw that brakes my camels back.

 

[cc84]

After what we've seen with the first "employee" deliveries -- specifically missing/incomplete features and bugs -- I think starting with employees was a smart move. Kudos to her if she was the driving force for that decision. My issue was primarily communications and how Rivian mislead customers -- whether you believe that was intentionally or not. I don't see how Rivian didn't know they weren't going to meet certain self-imposed metrics, yet they continued to tell people they were on track all the way up until they missed the deadline; and they repeated this pattern multiple times. If that's intentional, then that is upsetting. If it's incompetence, then that is concerning. If you insist it is neither, then what does that say about their culture?


I agree with the bolded part of your statement. In retrospect, I think the "beta" period was a smart move, but expectations should have been appropriately set -- and they weren't.


No, I think Rivian is insisting that the deliveries were "real". It's a sore subject on these forums, as some agree with that position, and others do not. Most (almost all) people who had guide contacts and were given 2021 dates have been pushed into 2022. I don't see why we shouldn't call this a "beta" period.


I'm in the same boat. Death by a thousand cuts, in a way; a price hike may be the straw that brakes my camels back.

I agree with all you stated, and a price hike will have me rethinking my situation too. Thanks. A few additional comments:

In hindsight, yes the employees first was probably a good move......maybe, but I'm not convinced. Best I remember, is we've never been told directly by Rivian about any problems they've found since employee "testing" has supposedly been taking place, or why it was a good thing we weren't given priority. Ms. Schwab did not mention any condition as to why employees were getting priority, so that leaves me with the assumption that her goal was to place employees ahead of customers. Not the other way around. I don't believe "testing" was a factor in her decision, or she would've made it known. She would not remain in my employment, if true. And, if so, I'll give Rivian credit for this move.

Apparently the employees had/have no issue taking possession of their Rivian, and I wouldn't either, as long as certain questions have been answered. I believe we found out about some problems through employees, or Guides, not Rivian directly. Maybe this was a ploy to make us think it was a good idea employees got their vehicles first. I don't think the employees were all in complete agreement either, about the problems. All we've found out directly from Rivian is deliveries have begun, then later said most were to employees. As you stated, the main concern is communications. Even when we do receive our vehicles, there will still be problems. Here's hoping none are major.

My philosophy still remains the same. Customers First, unless there is a beneficial reason to the customer, for that not taking place. It needs to be communicated directly to the customer, by Rivian......this is one area where they have fallen short. Rivian is also masterful in using ambiguous statements, that can be interpreted in different ways, depending on the reader. I don't know if this is intentional, or not, but someone there is very adept in this. It can give the perception of misleading one, or deceit. Communications need to be clear and concise, with no room for misinterpretation.

 

[Eager2own]

Ms. Schwab did not mention any condition as to why employees were getting priority, so that leaves me with the assumption that her goal was to place employees ahead of customers. Not the other way around. I don't believe "testing" was a factor in her decision, or she would've made it known. She would not remain in my employment, if true. And, if so, I'll give Rivian credit for this move.

Actually the law suit does specifically allege that she had proposed deliveries to employees first for “extended quality testing” — an idea that was rejected when she proposed it but later became a reality. At least that’s what the suit alleges.

 

[cc84]

Actually the law suit does specifically allege that she had proposed deliveries to employees first for “extended quality testing” — an idea that was rejected when she proposed it but later became a reality. At least that’s what the suit alleges.

Thanks Dan. What you quoted above would certainly change my opinion of Ms. Schwab for the time being. Would you happen to have a link to view the lawsuit, or how you were able to view? The only link I could find requires one to set up an account to sign in, docketalarm.com. I don't want/need any more accounts.?

 

[cc84]

Actually the law suit does specifically allege that she had proposed deliveries to employees first for “extended quality testing” — an idea that was rejected when she proposed it but later became a reality. At least that’s what the suit alleges.

I located the complaint filed, which basically reads the same as what @Eager2own stated. It changes my opinion of Ms. Schwab, which now questions whether Rivian will raise the price on existing pre-order holders.

According to her complaint, suggesting employees first for quality control was probably a good move IMO, but if that's truly what took place, it was never confirmed by Rivian. They were only confirmed as first deliveries. I have no reason to doubt Ms. Schwab. It'll be up to Rivian to make their case and shed light on what took place, and why this wasn't made known prior to the S-1 filing, if the first deliveries were actually for testing purposes. Did the employees know this?

Does anyone know if @Iwantatesla has mentioned whether his price increased, or stayed the same? I doubt any employees prices were increased, but have there been any other reports of a price increase amongst other non-employee deliveries? I attached a copy of the complaint filed.

I have to speculate that prices won't increase for early pre-order holders, but I don't know when they might set the cutoff date. I would hope at least until they change the price on their website, for new orders. If no price increase, it shouldn't hurt their position in the lawsuit, IMO.

 

[SeaGeo]

I located the complaint filed, which basically reads the same as what @Eager2own stated. It changes my opinion of Ms. Schwab, which now questions whether Rivian will raise the price on existing pre-order holders.

According to her complaint, suggesting employees first for quality control was probably a good move IMO, but if that's truly what took place, it was never confirmed by Rivian. They were only confirmed as first deliveries. I have no reason to doubt Ms. Schwab. It'll be up to Rivian to make their case and shed light on what took place, and why this wasn't made known prior to the S-1 filing, if the first deliveries were actually for testing purposes. Did the employees know this?

Does anyone know if @Iwantatesla has mentioned whether his price increased, or stayed the same? I doubt any employees prices were increased, but have there been any other reports of a price increase amongst other non-employee deliveries? I attached a copy of the complaint filed.

I have to speculate that prices won't increase for early pre-order holders, but I don't know when they might set the cutoff date. I would hope at least until they change the price on their website, for new orders. If no price increase, it shouldn't hurt their position in the lawsuit, IMO.

Well, this would explain some things...

 

[SoCalTravels]

Well, this would explain some things...

Maybe it’s that I come from big tech and work closely on events of all sizes. But I have yet to meet a single marketing exec who has budget in mind…. I find her concern with spending too much on events highly skeptical. Highly impressive events are critical for a startup trying to impress new and potential customers.

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