guernsej

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Now I really disagree on this one.

Ford Explorer sales are inflated by almost 25% fleet BTW. Interceptor police patrol vehicles accounts for 20k sales, let alone all the other local government purchases of these vehicles (our taxes, same for GM).

Furthermore here are the numbers straight from GM and Ford

Tahoe sales 2020: 88k (avg msrp 56k)

Explorer sales 2020: 78k (avg msrp 36k)

Tahoe, is a more expensive vehicle and still outsells the Explorer, which is more so my point, Ford needs more products people want. If you're gonna spend your own money (not our tax dollars) people want desirable products and will pay/wait for them, but I don't see Ford really offering up that kind of product.

Here's a better one!

Kia Telluride 2020: 56k sales

Now minus the police vehicles... Ford is not doing so good in the mid size game. Telluride's sit on dealer lots less time then any other mid size SUV.

This is why Ford doesn't impress anymore.
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/11/03/ford-october-sales.html

I'm not going to defend the Explorer specifically other than to say your numbers are wrong. Personally I'd buy a Telluride, but sales are sales and Ford sells a shit ton of Explorers every year.

The bigger picture is that Ford managed to introduce the Bronco and Bronco Sport, both innovative high demand SUVs generating tons of new interest for the company, without cutting significantly into Explorer or Escape sales.
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Zoidz

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That's the running joke, "no real truck owners will buy a Rivian"... Well real Ford truck owners who tow and actually haul distance won't buy a lightning.
Real truck owners? Can you tell me which of the following are "real" truck owners & which are not?
- Tows a 8'x20' work trailer 3 or 4 times a week.
- Hauls a load or two of yard waste, grass clippings, etc. to a collection site every week.
- Hauls 1000 lbs of work related cargo once a week.
- Delivers 50 "meals on wheels" to senior citizens every day.
- Plows snow 70 - 80 hours every season.
- Drives an F350 Diesel with 35" tires, stacks and a rolling coal mod but never hauls anything more than a case of beer.
- Owns 50 acres of farmland and raises longhorn cattle and horses as a hobby farm, using the truck for random occasional hauling and driving the farm roads to check on the animals.
- Tows a camper cross country once a year on a three week vacation.
- Hauls a dirt bike in the bed twice a month.
- Does recreational trail and rock crawling every weekend.
- Cuts wood, tows a log splitter and moves 15 loads of split wood each year to family and friends.
- Is a hardcore outdoors person and uses a truck every weekend to haul gear for fishing, skiing, bicycling, kayaking, etc.

If you haven't gotten my point yet, here it is - categorizing people as to whether they are "real truck owners" is petty and silly. If someone wants to drive a truck for their own purposes, why should anyone else even give it a second thought?
 

ja_kub_sz

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If you haven't gotten my point yet, here it is - categorizing people as to whether they are "real truck owners" is petty and silly. If someone wants to drive a truck for their own purposes, why should anyone else even give it a second thought?
"Running joke" is what I found to be funny... As in I DON'T AGREE with that assessment. I absolutely agree with you.

People criticize Rivian because they say it's not a "real truck" (bed too small, cab too small, overall size not that of a half ton, etc) I don't agree with that, and was pointing out reasons why you could say the Ford F-150 Lightning isn't a real truck (doesn't tow enough, can't go far enough, etc).

So based on that false premise, which I don't feel categorises the vast majority of people with pickup trucks, again is say to these critics, what is a real truck owner (IDK). I don't think that's a fair question, considering it even more of a joke. That's where I say if both electric trucks are equal under that false pretense why wouldn't you want the one that's nicer, faster, drives better and tows more.

I apologize if it didn't come across clear, but I always agreed with you. I find the vast majority of people I know who own pickup trucks just driving them around like any other SUV or car and don't utilize them in any real sense as far as the capabilities of the vehicle.

That's why I found the argument to be comical. That's also a part of the pathos pickup trucks, a lot of manufacturers feel that there's a type of person to buy their product, I honestly don't agree with that either. If you build a quality product that has numerous advantages over conventional alternatives people will buy your product. I feel like the R1T, and even the Ford F-150 Lightning, people will buy them, but I honestly feel the Rivian is a superior product.

Again I 100% agree with you, text just didn't get me there I guess 😂✌👍
 
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Trandall

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If you are needing to qualify your statement with some special definition of the word real I think you are missing the boat.
I think valuations of numerous tech companies aren't "real" nor are NFT's, nor ridiculous shipping delays but I have to admit the private jets, mega yachts, and private retreats on tropical islands had from the valuations are certainly real as are my current lead time on commercial roofing materials.
 

Pherdnut

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Um. this was well known since the days Ford cancelled their joint development venture with Lincoln. Why is this being brought up again?
There was a not-Lincoln joint project with Ford mentioned after that.

IMO, it just got too awkward too fast. Ford is probably already working on a Bronco EV and I know that would appeal to a lot of Rivian pre-order holders.
 

E.S.

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There was a not-Lincoln joint project with Ford mentioned after that.
Last I recall, that non-Lincoln project was also canned as it was mentioned in the Lincoln joint venture that Ford wanted to go ahead with their own plans. Pretty strong indication that there was not going to be any collaboration between Ford and Rivian.
 
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