Temerarius

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That is the GT though. 😎
Yes... a used GT... that's 11k over MSRP (it's not the AWD version).

Trust me, it's hellish out here right now.
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RayzorBEV

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Hmm, seems like Ford is getting a little cocky prematurely...
 

RayzorBEV

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Agree. If a Mach E is worth $56k, I'll gladly spend $76k for a Rivian.
And Mach E has zero tow capability and Ford wants us to think it's a CUV/SUV/Crossover, hah!
 

Billyk24

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Ford doesn't need Rivian to build EV's that'll sit on dealer lots waiting for people to buy them at a heavy discount.

Don't get me wrong, but Ford is looking at quantity not quality, and they've been known to build a lot of vehicles that don't offer anything of substance (former F-150 owner). They see the EV space as being wide open for them to litter with "40k" optionless work trucks that go 200 miles and can't tow. That's not a demand item, nor a branding strategy, it's just Ford being Ford.

They see they can sell a bunch of lesser electric trucks and its just a numbers game for them (the most sales), but mark my words those trucks aren't gonna be the sought after vehicles consumer buyers wait for or will do anything for the Ford brand as a whole. You're local public works building will be lined with electric Fords, but that isn't gonna make Ford great again.

That's the sad part with the big three... They don't want to really invest in innovative and quality products (minis the C8), but they sure want to sell a bunch of whatever to whomever.

Mustang Mach E's anyone? They're already collecting dust out by me.

Screenshot_20211118-171540.png
40k work trucks that go 200 miles and can't tow. What source are you referring to that states the new Ford F-150 Lightening can not tow?
 

timf

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Um. this was well known since the days Ford cancelled their joint development venture with Lincoln. Why is this being brought up again?
Ford claimed they were still going to be using the Rivian platform in a product, just not a Lincoln as originally planned. This officially ends any prospect of them using the Rivian platform in any of their products, which comes as no surprise as they are fully capable of building on their own platforms.
 

guernsej

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Ford doesn't need Rivian to build EV's that'll sit on dealer lots waiting for people to buy them at a heavy discount.

Don't get me wrong, but Ford is looking at quantity not quality, and they've been known to build a lot of vehicles that don't offer anything of substance (former F-150 owner). They see the EV space as being wide open for them to litter with "40k" optionless work trucks that go 200 miles and can't tow. That's not a demand item, nor a branding strategy, it's just Ford being Ford.

They see they can sell a bunch of lesser electric trucks and its just a numbers game for them (the most sales), but mark my words those trucks aren't gonna be the sought after vehicles consumer buyers wait for or will do anything for the Ford brand as a whole. You're local public works building will be lined with electric Fords, but that isn't gonna make Ford great again.

That's the sad part with the big three... They don't want to really invest in innovative and quality products (minis the C8), but they sure want to sell a bunch of whatever to whomever.

Mustang Mach E's anyone? They're already collecting dust out by me.
You're entitled to your opinion but this is one of the worst takes I've seen on Ford under Jim Farley.

Mach E is a hit, Bronco/Bronco Sport are hits, Maverick is a hit, F150 Lightning isn't even available yet and it's already a hit, literally anything they turn into a Raptor will be a hit. They stopped selling the super low margin sedans that were generally responsible for their reputation for making bland/unoriginal/low quality cars and refocused their international operations (Ford India and Brazil, I'm looking at you) and now they're sitting on a streamlined core portfolio of desirable/critically acclaimed/high demand trucks and SUVs (and mustang) that are selling like hot cakes at historically high margins.

Really, their biggest problem right now is the fact that their dealers suck and legislation is preventing them from cleanly switching over to the EV startup model of direct sales.

Disclaimer, I'm heavily invested in F and they've been killing it despite what you may think based on your previous experience.
 
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Bumble1978

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Ford realized that the EV market was VASTLY larger than they had ever anticipated. Putting that market into the hands of a very small, very new, very unproven, manufacturer is very risky. With the advent of the Mach-E, Ford realized that they can actually build a pretty damn good EV. The MME is certainly better than anything GM has built to date and it's very competitive with the Tesla Model Y. The F150 Lightning looks to be a huge success before the first one has gone "Job 1". So there really isn't any reason for Ford to partner with Rivian on any projects.

Now Ford is sitting on BILLIONS of dollars from their Rivian investment. Those billions are going to be extremely useful in building new battery plants and retooling existing plants for BEV production. Ford helped Rivian get its start in manufacturing and now Ford will make a killing on its relatively small investment.
Whatever, the Spark EV is dope if I could fit it in. 🤣😉
 

ja_kub_sz

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40k work trucks that go 200 miles and can't tow. What source are you referring to that states the new Ford F-150 Lightening can not tow?
F-150: 13,000 lbs vs. Lightning: 10,000 lbs
F-150: 900 miles vs. Lightning: 230-300 miles
F-150: 85k price vs. Lightning: ?????

All I'm saying is that Ford is foolish for making a EV truck that will tow less, have less range and 100% cost more then it's ICE alternative.

That's the running joke, "no real truck owners will buy a Rivian"... Well real Ford truck owners who tow and actually haul distance won't buy a lightning.

Secondly, if Ford Lightning buyers and Rivian R1T buyers aren't "real truck owners" would you rather have the 75k, 3 second 0-60, 11,000lb tow, quad motor super truck that drives like a sports car, or an oversized, under powered, full size pickup that has a 10k premium over it's ICE blue oval alternative?

That's why I'm not a Ford fan like I used to be, back when I had my F-150 Platinum long bed pickup.

Also, Navigator is getting killed by Escalade, Explorer by Tahoe, Dodge eating both Ford and GM's lunch, and this is the best they can do. I'm just not impressed with Ford.

Lastly, it's the great fallacy that anything is going to be getting cheaper any time soon, let alone a optioned pickup truck. We're all gonna be paying more for our trucks. All we can hope and I do believe is that we'll get more for what we pay for (more performance, more features, more capable vehicles, etc.).

The Lightning will be the most expensive truck Ford makes, yet it won't be Ford's "best" truck.
 
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jjswan33

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F-150: 13,000 lbs vs. Lightning: 10,000 lbs
F-150: 900 miles vs. Lightning: 230-300 miles
F-150: 85k price vs. Lightning: ?????

All I'm saying is that Ford is foolish for making a EV truck that will tow less, have less range and 100% cost more then it's ICE alternative.

That's the running joke, "no real truck owners will buy a Rivian"... Well real Ford truck owners who tow and actually haul distance won't buy a lightning.

Secondly, if Ford Lightning buyers and Rivian R1T buyers aren't "real truck owners" would you rather have the 75k, 3 second 0-60, 11,000lb tow, quad motor super truck that drives like a sports car, or an oversized, under powered, full size pickup that has a 10k premium over it's ICE blue oval alternative?

That's why I'm not a Ford fan like I used to be, back when I had my F-150 Platinum long bed pickup.

Also, Navigator is getting killed by Escalade, Explorer by Tahoe, Dodge eating both Ford and GM's lunch, and this is the best they can do. I'm just not impressed with Ford.

Lastly, it's the great fallacy that anything is going to be getting cheaper any time soon, let alone a optioned pickup truck. We're all gonna be paying more for our trucks. All we can hope and I do believe is that we'll get more for what we pay for (more performance, more features, more capable vehicles, etc.).

The Lightning will be the most expensive truck Ford makes, yet it won't be Ford's "best" truck.
Not a huge Ford fan either but I think you are generalizing a bit here. First of all a large volume of Fords trucks are not capable of towing 13000 lbs. Also most truck buyers probably don’t need to tow that much regularly.

The lightning prices are available, most will probably sell less than $85k especially if you consider tax credits. IMO the lightning prices appear competitive with their ICE equivalents.

Last of all you are ignoring fuel costs, those 900 miles at 15-20 mpg is going to be costly compared to the equivalent fuel cost for the lightning.

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guernsej

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F-150: 13,000 lbs vs. Lightning: 10,000 lbs
F-150: 900 miles vs. Lightning: 230-300 miles
F-150: 85k price vs. Lightning: ?????

All I'm saying is that Ford is foolish for making a EV truck that will tow less, have less range and 100% cost more then it's ICE alternative.

That's the running joke, "no real truck owners will buy a Rivian"... Well real Ford truck owners who tow and actually haul distance won't buy a lightning.

Secondly, if Ford Lightning buyers and Rivian R1T buyers aren't "real truck owners" would you rather have the 75k, 3 second 0-60, 11,000lb tow, quad motor super truck that drives like a sports car, or an oversized, under powered, full size pickup that has a 10k premium over it's ICE blue oval alternative?

That's why I'm not a Ford fan like I used to be, back when I had my F-150 Platinum long bed pickup.

Also, Navigator is getting killed by Escalade, Explorer by Tahoe, Dodge eating both Ford and GM's lunch, and this is the best they can do. I'm just not impressed with Ford.

Lastly, it's the great fallacy that anything is going to be getting cheaper any time soon, let alone a optioned pickup truck. We're all gonna be paying more for our trucks. All we can hope and I do believe is that we'll get more for what we pay for (more performance, more features, more capable vehicles, etc.).

The Lightning will be the most expensive truck Ford makes, yet it won't be Ford's "best" truck.
Omg so much opinion so little thought. Real truck owners are literally lining up by the tens of thousands to buy the Lightning. The Pro is going to be a working man's favorite starting at $40k with 230m range (300m optional), 2k lbs payload, 5k lbs towing (7.7k and 10k optional), and 2.4kW Pro Power (9.6kW optional) - just because it's not what you want doesn't mean there's not a huge market for it.

And you don't have to be impressed with Ford to at least get some basic facts straight - the Explorer absolutely crushes combined Tahoe/Yukon sales year in and year out (including this year), Dodge isn't eating anyone's lunch considering they sell an insignificant fraction of Ford's and GM's volume, and if you meant Ram then you're still wrong because F series trucks outsold Rams by 100k through Q3 (though I'll agree Ram makes great trucks now and is really giving Ford a run for their money).
 

guernsej

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Yet I'm still getting my wife an R1S over the Bronco Raptor 🤣😂🤣
 

Riventures

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If 'real truck' users aren't going to buy the Lightning, it is really tough to explain 120K+ reservations, especially compared to ~20-25K R1T reservations. Particularly, when those reservations happened in less than 2-3 months of announcement vs. 3 years of Rivian's announcement.

I don't think we can explain this variance just by saying the target customer base is different.
 

Larry

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Based on my recent experience purchasing and owning a Mach-E, good riddance. For me, Ford’s involvement was a major argument against ordering a Rivian.
 

ja_kub_sz

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Omg so much opinion so little thought. Real truck owners are literally lining up by the tens of thousands to buy the Lightning. The Pro is going to be a working man's favorite starting at $40k with 230m range (300m optional), 2k lbs payload, 5k lbs towing (7.7k and 10k optional), and 2.4kW Pro Power (9.6kW optional) - just because it's not what you want doesn't mean there's not a huge market for it.

And you don't have to be impressed with Ford to at least get some basic facts straight - the Explorer absolutely crushes combined Tahoe/Yukon sales year in and year out (including this year), Dodge isn't eating anyone's lunch considering they sell an insignificant fraction of Ford's and GM's volume, and if you meant Ram then you're still wrong because F series trucks outsold Rams by 100k through Q3 (though I'll agree Ram makes great trucks now and is really giving Ford a run for their money).
Now I really disagree on this one.

Ford Explorer sales are inflated by almost 40% fleet BTW. Interceptor police patrol vehicles accounts for 20k sales, let alone all the other local government purchases of these vehicles (our taxes, same for GM 25%).

Furthermore here are the numbers straight from GM and Ford

Tahoe sales 2020: 88k (avg msrp 56k)

Explorer sales 2020: 78k (avg msrp 36k)

Tahoe, is a more expensive vehicle and still outsells the Explorer, which is more so my point, Ford needs more products people want. If you're gonna spend your own money (not our tax dollars) people want desirable products and will pay/wait for them, but I don't see Ford really offering up that kind of product.

Here's a better one!

Kia Telluride 2020: 56k sales

Now minus the police vehicles... Ford is not doing so good in the mid size game. Telluride's sit on dealer lots less time then any other mid size SUV.

This is why Ford doesn't impress anymore.
 
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E.S.

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Ford claimed they were still going to be using the Rivian platform in a product, just not a Lincoln as originally planned. This officially ends any prospect of them using the Rivian platform in any of their products, which comes as no surprise as they are fully capable of building on their own platforms.

Yes. Then the collaboration was dropped and Ford stated they went in favor of doing their own thing from that announcement. This isn't new news and I'm kind of stunned that people are reacting that it is. That it's being re-stated again now, supposedly in an official capacity is beyond me when the message was clear back then. But whatever gets peoples' attention all over again 🤷‍♂️
 
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