Diddy123

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It says the demos automatically convert to a consumer account. If you don't pay, you might still be considered an "active subscriber" with an overdue renewal...
Guys, please do some reading of the financials. Please. They break out promotional (trial) subscriptions vs paid subscriptions. They also clearly show the revenue from each. They also show how as they add PAID subscribers, their revenue for PAID subscribers increases, YoY. They explicitly talk about non-paid churn. They can't make it any clearer.

Sorry, I just can't stand mis-information being thrown around like this.
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Autolycus

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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/b...bscribers-second-quarter-earnings-1234987459/

The language in this article from June 2021 should settle things:

The audio giant, controlled by John Malone’s Liberty Media, said that at its core SiriusXM business self-pay subscriber net additions came to 355,000 in the latest quarter, compared with 264,000 in the year-ago period. It lost 378,000 paid promotional subs. The firm’s total SiriusXM users at the end of June stood at 34.5 million, including a record 31.4 million self-pay customers.
Note the clear distinction between promotional subs and self-pay customers.

Revenue is also at or near record highs.
 

pc500

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Car manufacturer's don't pay to add SXM. SXM pays them to put it in.

This aside, I would like to see an "app" version of SXM using the built-in 4g.
 

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Car manufacturer's don't pay to add SXM. SXM pays them to put it in.

This aside, I would like to see an "app" version of SXM using the built-in 4g.
4g/cell service doesn’t help me much. I live in rural NY and am often out of cell service for long periods of time. I use XM to stream news stations such as CNBC, so downloading a playlist from Spotify won’t help me either. This is supposed to be an “adventure vehicle”. It is marketed to people who want to go to far off (and off the grid) places. Hopefully the infotainment system has a way to add a satellite receiver.
 
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Satellite radio's days are numbered. The overhead involved in building, deploying, and operating the satellite constellation is great. They have an operational lifetime of only about 15 years... Replacing the fleet likely does not make sense, and SiriusXM is already starting to push it's streaming alternatives. As wireless internet capabilities get better and better, the business case for "satellite" radio continues to diminish.
I hope we can all remain Rivian friends over this but I have to agree with the analysis that sat radio's days are numbered despite their loyal wilderness explorer and long haul trucker base. Sirius used to push hard on renewals to sat accounts and now they're more than happy to let you cancel and sign on to a ( much less expensive) streaming only subscription.

Sirius' sat radio compression makes for poor sound quality and there's too many competitors offering better quality audio without the cost burden of the satellite network...
 
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Gator42

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Gator42

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Car manufacturer's don't pay to add SXM. SXM pays them to put it in.

This aside, I would like to see an "app" version of SXM using the built-in 4g.
I was hoping for that in my Defender but LR doesn't offer it either, but there's Spotify, Tidal and one other app I can't recall. Not sure if that's the direction Sirius will go or not...
 

Diddy123

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Do you see any data on streaming subscribers vs hardware service subscribers? I don't see that anywhere...
They don’t break out streaming only vs Satellite. Best indicator to use would be their ”equipment” revenue, which is generally (but not completely) related to hardware for satellite.

That has grown consistently up until 2020. 2020 was stagnant, but Q1 and Q2 of 2021 are showing major growth in that revenue segment.
 

Sacagawea

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Thanks for the intel. I think it will be a messy addition though no? Wires etc all over?
That's wires etc all over if we have to buy the after kit from XM. Like I said, my current vehicle had it already "under the hood" so to speak when I bought my car. I could activate it with SiriusXM or not. It was integrated with my sound system, the car came to me wired. If I have to add it on after because Rivian doesn't, then we're talking wires and box that I have to attach under the dash inside my vehicle.
 

Gator42

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They don’t break out streaming only vs Satellite. Best indicator to use would be their ”equipment” revenue, which is generally (but not completely) related to hardware for satellite.

That has grown consistently up until 2020. 2020 was stagnant, but Q1 and Q2 of 2021 are showing major growth in that revenue segment.
Equipment revenue is related to the licensing of their technology to radio manufacturers*- not to subscriber top line, so the 2020 stagnation and subsequent growth is more a reflection of demand for radios and the state of auto production and sales. (It also includes things like portable radios and marine but that's a smaller portion of their hardware business...)

...and in addition to sat radio they also sell nav data, so there's hardware revenue realted to those streams as well...

*(they don't make the radios, they license their tech to manufacturers who in turn sell OEM radios to auto makers...)
 

Gator42

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That's wires etc all over if we have to buy the after kit from XM. Like I said, my current vehicle had it already "under the hood" so to speak when I bought my car. I could activate it with SiriusXM or not. It was integrated with my sound system, the car came to me wired. If I have to add it on after because Rivian doesn't, then we're talking wires and box that I have to attach under the dash inside my vehicle.
They called this line Automatic and it looks like they are out of that business...

"In May 2020, we terminated the Automatic Labs Inc. (“Automatic”) service, which was part of our connected services business. Automatic operated a service for consumers and auto dealers and offered an install-it-yourself adapter and mobile application, which transformed vehicles into connected vehicles." (source: SIRI 10K)
 

DucRider

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How many subscribers Sirius has is irrelevant. Rivian has made their decision and is not including the hardware and integrating the software into their vehicles.

This leaves those with Sirius as a "must have" two options:
  1. Add an aftermarket kit
  2. Buy a different vehicle
This is the same discussion as the AA/Carplay, Flat towing, 37" tires, removable top, fancy tailgate, real leather option, longer bed, etc. etc. etc.
Each consumer will compare what Rivian is offering to their wants/needs. Not sure what trying to argue that they are wrong is going to accomplish.

I hope nobody really wants Rivian to stop production and go thru a redesign in order to incorporate Sirius.

Each consumer will compare what Rivian is offering with their wants/needs and then decide whether to go forward with the purchase.
 

CommodoreAmiga

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How many subscribers Sirius has is irrelevant. Rivian has made their decision and is not including the hardware and integrating the software into their vehicles.

This leaves those with Sirius as a "must have" two options:
  1. Add an aftermarket kit
  2. Buy a different vehicle
This is the same discussion as the AA/Carplay, Flat towing, 37" tires, removable top, fancy tailgate, real leather option, longer bed, etc. etc. etc.
Each consumer will compare what Rivian is offering to their wants/needs. Not sure what trying to argue that they are wrong is going to accomplish.

I hope nobody really wants Rivian to stop production and go thru a redesign in order to incorporate Sirius.

Each consumer will compare what Rivian is offering with their wants/needs and then decide whether to go forward with the purchase.
Why even have a forum?

It seems you're saying "take what you're offered or shut the f up"?
 

DaveA

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AFAIK, they include trial users in their subscriber counts. Also, SiriusXM is infamous for aggressively pushing discounts (entire year subscription for under $60) and making it difficult to cancel service.

So SiriusXM gets $5 a month and has to maintain a fleet of satellites, while Spotify gets twice the fee and no satellite overhead.

Even with a large number of subscribers, the business model WILL be changing.
I had to close my credit card account to cancel my Sirius/XM service a few years back. Terrible experience.
 

Diddy123

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I had to close my credit card account to cancel my Sirius/XM service a few years back. Terrible experience.
Their business practices are not customer friendly. On that we can certainly agree!
 
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