Rivian and features being sold "cars-as-a-service"?

[armaguedes]

[Preamble: originally I tried to post what follows in r/Rivian, but I got this message: «Sorry, this post was removed by Reddit's spam filters. Reddit's automated bots frequently filter posts it thinks might be spam.». I'm posting this here, but if it still not allowed -- or it's in the wrong category -- please let me know.]


Good evening guys.

Does anyone know if Rivian's cars have -- or are planning to have -- any pre-installed features that can only be unlocked via a subscription (the article does not mention Rivian specifically)? These car subscriptions -- and subscriptions in general, for that matter -- are unfortunately becoming ubiquitous.

Thanks!

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[Diddy123]

Yes

https://rivian.com/experience/membership

As our program grows, we’ll continue adding benefits like drive modes, enhanced vehicle capabilities and in-cabin content

 

[SeaGeo]

[Preamble: originally I tried to post what follows in r/Rivian, but I got this message: «Sorry, this post was removed by Reddit's spam filters.
Reddit's automated bots frequently filter posts it thinks might be spam.». I'm posting this here, but if it still not allowed -- or it's in the wrong category -- please let me know.]


Good evening guys.

Does anyone know if Rivian's cars have -- or are planning to have -- any pre-installed features that can only be unlocked via a subscription (the article does not mention Rivian specifically)? These car subscriptions -- and subscriptions in general, for that matter -- are unfortunately becoming ubiquitous.

Thanks!

that should be a post allowed in the subreddit's weekly Q&A thread as well. I suspect you got hit by the spam filter because of the link paired with a new post.

 

[svet-am]

I asked explicitly about this last week when I was at the Venice Hub. The person I spoke with said what is in the cabin today remains, even if we elect NOT to use the subscription service. The only caveat to that is if we don't purchase the subscription then we don't have LTE and some of the features like Spotify won't work and we (obviously) won't get any of the new subscription-only features. I have been repeatedly told that we won't _lose_ any drive modes but we won't be able to take advantage of new ones (tank turn?!?)

He didn't know how it would impact things like navigation that we now know is using the cloud extensively. He literally said "a bunch of people in headquarters are trying to figure out how it will all work."

 

[fotoflux]

WAIT are maps not stored locally and they rely on an active data connection? that's actually a major bummer and strange for a car that is intended to be used in the wilderness w/o reliable connectivity...

 

[Rad]

that's actually a major bummer and strange for a car that is intended to be used in the wilderness w/o reliable connectivity...

If true, that is a very big bummer. There are definitely some items (features) missing from the offering that makes the Rivian a little less appealing.

 

[armaguedes]

(...) I suspect you got hit by the spam filter because of the link paired with a new post.

Possibly, but you can link while posting on Reddit, so I'm not quite sure (I very much doubt Hack a Day is in any (sensible) spam list).

 

[virgnia_rivian]

If true, that is a very big bummer. There are definitely some items (features) missing from the offering that makes the Rivian a little less appealing.

Having not looked into this too thoroughly yet, my guess is map updates would require the service. And you likely wouldn’t get any traffic updates without it. This is how many nav systems work. My Jeep only had data for a certain time and then all traffic info went away unless I paid for it.

I haven’t seen anything that clearly defines what will require membership and I’m guessing Rivian is still figuring this out. This is not a knock, it’s just a reality of launching a new brand and product line.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

WAIT are maps not stored locally and they rely on an active data connection? that's actually a major bummer and strange for a car that is intended to be used in the wilderness w/o reliable connectivity...

I don't know the official answer but I don't know of an LTE/5G enabled GPS that doesn't have at lease some storage cache capacity. Google Maps lets you download everything for your area. Waze does some caching as well. You'll need a cache for offroading as well since mobile coverage can be very spotty.

 

[armaguedes]

Regarding navigation and (online) maps, assuming some data won't be cached locally -- like your planned routes and possible deviations / alternate paths --, you can always use your phone (and some specific app?) to plan your treks.

The problem parallel to that is if you're in the wilderness, you don't have 4G/LTE signal anyway, just GPS signal (assuming reliable line-of-sight to the satellites, which in a forested trek is not a given). Whichever the case, you may not want / be able to rely on their cloud services.

As for e.g. Spotify and similar apps, again, if you have an account you can use your phone and connect to the car's multimedia system (or play your own MP3's).

And there's always the different markets they'll sell in; I have no idea if some particular feature that is "subscribable" in the U.S. is banned / free in the E.U., and vice-versa. There is also market pressure, where one company switches one feature from being a service to being free, forcing other manufacturers to reconsider.

And I pray they won't play ads in the car for anyone, subscriber or otherwise.

 

[ironpig]

I've never gotten a clear answer about the maps in Rivian and it's requiring a cell connection will be a big problem for the adventure vehicle.

That said, the plan for all Auto manufacturers is to sell features, apps, subscriptions, etc after you buy the car. They are all planning for this. It will become the new normal unfortunately.

That's why they want to get away from Apple CarPlay. If they add CarPlay, you buy apps through apple. If you us Rivian OS, you buy apps/features through them etc.

 

[kylealden]

The real answer to the original question in this thread is that as of today, we know of no features which depend on a paid subscription.

It's reasonable to assume that premium data (LTE for Spotify and similar) will require some kind of data fee. It's not clear if there is a lower tier for basic nav, but I'd assume so.

Beyond that, we have no info, but everything on Rivian's site is advertised as a "standard feature" (including ADAS) and there's no evidence that anything is being held back. There is evidence that they'd like to offer future features such as additional drive modes as part of a subscription; RJ has speculated about things like guided self-driving tours of specific offroad routes as an example.

But the notion that there are any "takebacks" demanding money for standard features is, as of today, FUD. There may be future software-unlockable features, just as e.g. Tesla has today with FSD and the acceleration boosts.

 

[Zoidz]

WAIT are maps not stored locally and they rely on an active data connection? that's actually a major bummer and strange for a car that is intended to be used in the wilderness w/o reliable connectivity...

There's an old thread here (4 - 6 months ago?) where this was discussed extensively. There's no official answer from Rivian, but as I recall their were some first drive discussions with Rivian reps that implied it will cache basic map data for your area and/or route. But my guess is that a subscription & LTE signal will be needed for most of the map functions and updates.

It would be great if someone who has taken delivery could test this, if it has the ability to turn off LTE it would be a quick test - airplane mode for Rivian???

 

[crashmtb]

WAIT are maps not stored locally and they rely on an active data connection? that's actually a major bummer and strange for a car that is intended to be used in the wilderness w/o reliable connectivity...

Maps and routing are available offline. At least that’s what I was told at the first mile thing. It won’t show charging spots though, presumably since the status of stations is pulledfrom chargepoint

 

[Cavalryscout18]

I would think the Rivian would be able to connect to Wi-Fi so even if you opted out of the subscription LTE, I am sure you could get all upgrades through Wi-Fi when charging at home at night. Not sure how much map data it will store but worst case scenario, if you were out on the road and needed to update the map for that specific area, you could connect it to your hot-stop as you drive. It won’t be as smooth as having LTE on your truck but you could do it. My Model 3 was the same way. After 1 year, it stopped the data and while the maps still worked, there was no traffic and non of the online radio stations would work. It did let me connect to my hot spot though, so that can work in a pinch. This is standard practice though. No one is going to give you free LTE for very long. And when that goes, then all features that require data will also go.

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