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electruck

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This will be my first full EV and it sounds like this regulation is new but I was unaware of this prior to this post.
This has been in the works since before December 2010.
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Blur1t

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Bear in mind that most of the places people consider "off road" are still legally on road (private property and OHV parks notwithstanding). All the rules of the road apply on that rutted out forest service road (at least technically -- every agency and jurisdiction will have their own enforcement priorities).

And that sound is a safety feature that can literally help prevent you from killing a pedestrian. I would prefer to avoid that guilt and that insurance claim, so I will gladly keep it enabled.
Like the Classic, “watch the tram car please” from the good old Jersey boardwalk from my youth. I still get a chuckle about that noise.
 

ajdelange

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Really makes me wonder how I have been able to drive BEV for two years without running over any blind people!
 

timesinks

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Really makes me wonder how I have been able to drive BEV for two years without running over any blind people!
Sounds a lot like saying "I don't wear my seatbelt because I haven't been flung through my windshield before." It's a mitigation that makes vehicles safer. Just because you, personally, haven't been in that specific situation doesn't mean that, on average, the mitigation is ineffective.
 

electruck

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Really makes me wonder how I have been able to drive BEV for two years without running over any blind people!
I challenge you, for a day, to go about your daily activities including walking across a street all while blindfolded. Perhaps then you won't find this so funny. My wife is visually impaired and we have many friends around the country who are also visually impaired. This may be a joke to you but it is a matter of safety for them every single day of their life. The safety of all pedestrians (visually impaired or not), bicyclists and playing children who often spill out into the streets is not a joking matter.
 

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thrill

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Sounds a lot like saying "I don't wear my seatbelt because I haven't been flung through my windshield before." It's a mitigation that makes vehicles safer. Just because you, personally, haven't been in that specific situation doesn't mean that, on average, the mitigation is ineffective.
Doesn't mean it's effective either.

I challenge you, for a day, to go about your daily activities including walking across a street all while blindfolded. Perhaps then you won't find this so funny. My wife is visually impaired and we have many friends around the country who are also visually impaired. This may be a joke to you but it is a matter of safety for them every single day of their life. The safety of all pedestrians (visually impaired or not), bicyclists and playing children who often spill out into the streets is not a joking matter.
Where's the data indicating that any given noise signal makes a measurable difference? What decibel level has been scientifically determined as sufficient? What frequencies have been determined to be necessary? What sorts of sounds have been determined to effective - tires on gravel or rap music? Why don't ICE cars that are sufficiently quiet, and how quiet is that, have similar legislation? Why did legislation say slower than 30kph required noise, but 31 kph did not?
 

DucRider

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Worth noting that this is not an "EV only" regulation. It also applies to hybrids.

Where's the data indicating that any given noise signal makes a measurable difference? What decibel level has been scientifically determined as sufficient? What frequencies have been determined to be necessary? What sorts of sounds have been determined to effective - tires on gravel or rap music? Why don't ICE cars that are sufficiently quiet, and how quiet is that, have similar legislation? Why did legislation say slower than 30kph required noise, but 31 kph did not?
The fact that pedestrian/vehicle accidents were 18% greater with hybrids/EVs that ICE vehicles spurred this regulation. Also worth noting that some hybrids and EVs already had a pedestrian warning at the time of the study.
NHTSA's conducted a statistical crash data study, as cited in the final rule,[5] which found that the pedestrian crash rate of hybrid vehicles was 1.18 times greater than that of conventional ICE vehicles. The agency's Final Regulatory Impact Assessment is available in the docket [6] with some proprietary information redacted. Also, the benefits of the final rule are summarized in section V-A [7] of the final rule preamble, and the costs are summarized in section V-B.[8]
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...um-sound-requirements-for-hybrid-and-electric

As to what has been deemed sufficient, the regulation is very specific and quite complex. Don't count on user selectable sounds.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.141


I very much doubt that Rivian (or any other manufacturer) will be able to offer a way to disable the warning system. The regulation is very specific that hybrids/EVs must emit the sound any time the drive system is engaged. Not provision for on or off road, on private property, etc.
 

electruck

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Where's the data indicating that any given noise signal makes a measurable difference? What decibel level has been scientifically determined as sufficient? What frequencies have been determined to be necessary? What sorts of sounds have been determined to effective - tires on gravel or rap music? Why don't ICE cars that are sufficiently quiet, and how quiet is that, have similar legislation? Why did legislation say slower than 30kph required noise, but 31 kph did not?
You'll have to take those questions up with the folks making the rules. I never said I agree with how they have been written, only that they are needed. In some ways the laws are not specific enough, in other ways they don't go far enough, and in other cases they are non-existent (such as with application to ICE). I absolutely do agree that noise generators will save lives.

You want data that it makes a difference, put on a blindfold and go play in the street.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/nyregion/nyc-blind-pedestrian-signals.html
 

timesinks

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Doesn't mean it's effective either.



Where's the data indicating that any given noise signal makes a measurable difference? What decibel level has been scientifically determined as sufficient? What frequencies have been determined to be necessary? What sorts of sounds have been determined to effective - tires on gravel or rap music? Why don't ICE cars that are sufficiently quiet, and how quiet is that, have similar legislation? Why did legislation say slower than 30kph required noise, but 31 kph did not?
See, specifically, "Purpose and Need" for citations: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/812347-minimumsoundrequirements.pdf

Here's another study: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._and_Electric_Vehicles_Operating_at_Low_Speed
 

MReda

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Riding off pavement is typically a noisy affair, particularly with all terrain tires. It's entirely possible to meet the mandate without actually being able to hear the sound in cab over some spirited dirt driving. If Rivian decides to implement a 110dB siren to satisfy this, I'll probably disable it, but if they are more consistent with what is actually required, this seems like a non-issue.
 

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Rivian-WI

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My neighborhood is full of Tesla’s. I hear them making noise when in reverse, but theyre all silent when cruising slowly through the neighborhood. certainly none make a noise like the video of the Amazon van.

If it’s a law to make this noise, should I assume that each of my neighbors has somehow disabled the noisemaker in their Tesla?
Tesla added it in a recent update and called it Boombox. Older model Teslas don't have the external speaker to support it. There might be some sort of add-on for them to support it.
I think Elon did not want to do this and pushed it off as long as possible considering they included a fart sound as an option!
 

skyote

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I've read both sides of this & understand points on each. On one hand, if it could help safety, that's priority 1. On the other, there are many questions about efficacy (study in UK says it's negligible), and there are ICE cars unregulated that are just as quiet as EVs or hybrids.

Personally, I think any regulation should apply to all vehicles (decibel level of X under XYZ circumstances); it doesn't make any sense to me to single out EV & hybrid. Also, I will absolutely be upset if I cannot disable the sounds when I'm on my own property or out in nature.

If I'm Rivian, I include a way to disable this at the operator's discretion. I also make the purchaser sign a disclaimer when they buy; I would trigger a pop up warning when the feature is disabled, require voice confirmation & trigger logging with GPS coords and a driver pic/voice recording/video.

There will always be a debate between personal responsibility vs (over?) regulation.
 

skyote

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How the heck am I gonna be able to sneak away from my sleeping family if my Rivian sounds like an Amazon spaceship?
 

DucRider

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Riding off pavement is typically a noisy affair, particularly with all terrain tires. It's entirely possible to meet the mandate without actually being able to hear the sound in cab over some spirited dirt driving. If Rivian decides to implement a 110dB siren to satisfy this, I'll probably disable it, but if they are more consistent with what is actually required, this seems like a non-issue.
A 110 db siren would not satisfy the statute.?
 
 




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