Ride quality R1S vs R1T? Should I be worried about reviews?

[madgrey]

You are correct, that's exactly what it sounds like. Except, this is pretty universal across the board, so that would lead one to believe it is a design flaw.

From the reviews I have read and watched, control under hard accelleration, and front to back porpoising seem to be the big issues. Some say a mismatch of steering speed to chassis. I can't recall anything about holding the line, I assume @OverSurge means during cruising?

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[OverSurge]

This sounds like tramlining, could this be a factor?

This is generally caused by things like worn suspension bushings, mismatched alignment specs, mismatched tire pressure and wrong offset wheels. Did you have your alignment checked? What about tire pressure? I assume you didn't yet change your wheels/tires (many options reduce offset by a massive 30mm) and you certainly shouldn't have worn components.

No. This is definitely just the handling of the R1S. I think it's been well enough documented in reviews across the internet. My vehicle has been in the shop for alignment & balance (had a shake in steering at high speeds), suspension bolt adjustment recall, replaced rear drives & disco module, rattles, etc. It's been looked over and driven by Rivian multiple times. I truly wish it was just another thing wrong with it, that I could take in and fix. I was mentally prepared for the growth pains and services as I was also an earlier Tesla adopter. So all the services to get the vehicle perfect aren't a bother to me. I still wouldn't get rid of mine. I'm still a STRONG patient believer in Rivian. This is just one area that could use improvement. Especially if you're someone coming from other premium driving experiences and can immediately tell the difference.

 

[Belem]

I'm a later reserver that had an R1T Max Pack selected and I switched to an R1S after Max Pack went to dual-motor and this thread has me glued.

I did a "First Drive" with the R1T and was blown away how it handled. I drive a ND2 Miata, and while it's not the same, the R1T handled way better than anything that size had any right to. I was hoping the R1S would be similar.

The "good news" is that I'm not expecting the R1S until Q4 (at least) so I get to follow along and hope something gets fixed. If not, I'll get an R1T.

 

[OverSurge]

From the reviews I have read and watched, control under hard accelleration, and front to back porpoising seem to be the big issues. Some say a mismatch of steering speed to chassis. I can't recall anything about holding the line, I assume @OverSurge means during cruising?

yes. While just driving. It's hard to describe to individuals. I've owned a lot of vehicles in my life, so I have always noticed how some of them drive themselves better than others. I'm not talking about just being out of alignment and pulling to one side. I'm talking about how you get a lot of action from steering at speed that requires you to "drive" the vehicle at all times. If you look down to adjust the volume for a second and look back up, the vehicle doesn't hold the lane as well as others.

You are also correct about the control under hard acceleration.

 

[madgrey]

I'm a later reserver that had an R1T Max Pack selected and I switched to an R1S after Max Pack went to dual-motor and this thread has me glued.

I did a "First Drive" with the R1T and was blown away how it handled. I drive a ND2 Miata, and while it's not the same, the R1T handled way better than anything that size had any right to. I was hoping the R1S would be similar.

The "good news" is that I'm not expecting the R1S until Q4 (at least) so I get to follow along and hope something gets fixed. If not, I'll get an R1T.

ND1 here, with FMs FOX coils, turbo and too many other things to list. The R1T really is good, but I'm reminded of it's limitations when I drive the 2400lb go-cart.

 

[dleewla]

Quibble all you want over my language, what I said was proper and correct English. Physics describes the fundamental forces that govern our reality, and those apply equally regardless of what they're being applied to.

Physical characteristics change the EFFECTS of physics, but not the physics themselves.

What I said aligns with this reality.

And yes, since we're talking about ride quality wrt suspension and given that the T and S both have fully configurable suspension via software, this can be fixed via software. T and S will never be 1:1 due to the difference in physical characteristics, but as I said, there is absolutely nothing about said characteristics that prevent the S from having a similar ride quality to the current ride quality of a T.

but have you driven the S? you'd be a good person to speak of the differences since you own a T.

the reviews are pretty consistent about the drive dynamics and ride difference from reviewers so it isn't nothing. can Rivian tune it over time? yes, but can they tune it enough to overcome the physical differences between the T and S that may inherently impact, in a negative way, the S? remains to be seen.

if the original design was around the dimensions of the T and they simply stuck the same hardware and software on the S, there may be some aspects that software tweaks will never be able to adjust for.

 

[OverSurge]

Let me also say.. the actual "handling" of the vehicle is amazing. You can take corners at high speeds and it sticks to the ground. It has amazing turning radius. When going fast over uneven roads it still sticks to the ground. I'm talking about the stiffness of the steering and the nature of the vehicle to almost be too sensitive to steering actions at speed. Everyone who has driven my R1S has said the same thing without me prompting them. You "have" to drive the vehicle. Until you experience it, it's hard to describe.

 

[Sully151]

Let me also say.. the actual "handling" of the vehicle is amazing. You can take corners at high speeds and it sticks to the ground. It has amazing turning radius. When going fast over uneven roads it still sticks to the ground. I'm talking about the stiffness of the steering and the nature of the vehicle to almost be too sensitive to steering actions at speed. Everyone who has driven my R1S has said the same thing without me prompting them. You "have" to drive the vehicle. Until you experience it, it's hard to describe.

Hmm, is needing to “drive the vehicle” a bad thing?

I drove the T, and have not had the chance to drive the S (which I am configured for) so I really don’t know what to expect. I currently drive a Mini SE which is a blast, before that, a beat up Jeep Wrangler JKU with a 4” lift, 37’s, and a bunch of broken parts which was fun in its own right, before that, a 118’ Topsail Schooner that was traditionally rigged to be on par with a boat from the early 1800’s

 

[Guy]

Let me also say.. the actual "handling" of the vehicle is amazing. You can take corners at high speeds and it sticks to the ground. It has amazing turning radius. When going fast over uneven roads it still sticks to the ground. I'm talking about the stiffness of the steering and the nature of the vehicle to almost be too sensitive to steering actions at speed. Everyone who has driven my R1S has said the same thing without me prompting them. You "have" to drive the vehicle. Until you experience it, it's hard to describe.

What is the ride comfort like? Does it dampened bump, potholes etc well? I have only driven a T once and was very impressed in All Purpose soft setting at the way it ironed out bumps, expansion joints etc. Does the S do this nearly as well?

 

[Guy]

Hmm, is needing to “drive the vehicle” a bad thing?

I drove the T, and have not had the chance to drive the S (which I am configured for) so I really don’t know what to expect. I currently drive a Mini SE which is a blast, before that, a beat up Jeep Wrangler JKU with a 4” lift, 37’s, and a bunch of broken parts which was fun in its own right, before that, a 118’ Topsail Schooner that was traditionally rigged to be on par with a boat from the early 1800’s

Is needing the drive the S a bad thing?

Ordinarily not but in the east it is hard to get a test drive to determine.

 

[cwinters]

I haven't driven my R1S a lot yet (just got it last Saturday), but it is pretty bouncy. I tried All-purpose High rather than the medium setting, and that seemed to reduce the bounce a lot - a much smoother ride. And on sport/stiff; forgetaboutit. The family did not like that at all. I think this can be fixed once they get as much data analytic time with the S as they did with the T. I hope so anyway; I'd think an $80K vehicle with a McLaren-like suspension would have a better ride than my Pacifica Hybrid minivan, or at least the option to have some cushion AND a stiff sporty ride depending on the setting.

 

[OverSurge]

What is the ride comfort like? Does it dampened bump, potholes etc well? I have only driven a T once and was very impressed in All Purpose soft setting at the way it ironed out bumps, expansion joints etc. Does the S do this nearly as well?

Yes. Obviously it depends on which drive mode you're in. With Sport you of course feel everything, with all purpose it is a very comfortable ride. My feedback is not related to the ride/handling, it is simply the steering caveat I've conveyed.

 

[White Shadow]

People keep repeating this mantra as if it is a given fact, which of course it is not.

A great deal of geometry goes into building a suspension system. It goes well beyond the obviously adjustable airbags and hydraulic valving.

Suspension systems move in an arc that is defined by its mechanical tie points. In a perfect world, those mechanical tie points are well engineered to match the exact vehicle characteristics. If, as I suspect, this is what is causing the issues in the R1S, this absolutely cannot be fixed with an over-the-air update LOL. It will need to be physically re-engineered for the vehicle.

That said, I have absolutely no direct evidence that it is a physical problem. I only point out that just assuming it is a software issue is folly. I for one plan to hang on to my R1T until Rivian has found and fixed this issue; then I will move on my plan to get the R1S.

Your assumption is that I was suggesting that the issues could be fixed via a software update, but that would not be correct. When I said it's an easy fix, what I'm saying is that Rivian is the manufacturer and can easily fix this issue. And that's true....they designed it and they can fix it. And no, the "hard points" don't necessarily need to change in order to improve the ride quality. Why? Well, look at history. Many examples of suspension refinements have been made without having to completely overhaul the entire suspension system. Rivian can most certainly do the same. You'd be surprised just how different a suspension can feel with nothing more than changing compression and rebound alone.

If enough people see the R1S ride as a problem, Rivian will fix it.

 

[White Shadow]

This sounds like tramlining, could this be a factor?

This is generally caused by things like worn suspension bushings, mismatched alignment specs, mismatched tire pressure and wrong offset wheels. Did you have your alignment checked? What about tire pressure? I assume you didn't yet change your wheels/tires (many options reduce offset by a massive 30mm) and you certainly shouldn't have worn components.

Tramlining is when the vehicle's tires follow ruts/grooves in the road. That's pretty common on cars with wide front tires, even unmodified cars with original tires. It's a little annoying because you have to constantly fight the steering wheel on anything less than perfect roads. And it can usually be improved with a simple wheel alignment. I don't think the R1S suffers from tramlining. At least I didn't notice any and I have a ton of experience with cars that tramline.

 

[Guy]

Yes. Obviously it depends on which drive mode you're in. With Sport you of course feel everything, with all purpose it is a very comfortable ride. My feedback is not related to the ride/handling, it is simply the steering caveat I've conveyed.

Thanks, the steering issues you mentioned were good to learn about. I was then wondering what your view was of the general ride quality and if that was an issue in addition to the steering issue you raised.

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