godfodder0901

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Yes, and we all know that every business is static and never changes its model or service offerings (especially if a competitor is offering a better service option).
You asked who. I just answered.
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crashmtb

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These are not easily "swappable"; hugely labor-intensive to remove after manufacture.
presumably Rivian’s “skateboard” - which is similar to conventional body on frame construction - would lend itself more readily to changing battery packs
 

Temerarius

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As far as I know, only Nio has designed "easily swappable" into their packs/modules. That said, even when difficult, it's generally still designed into the rig (else, it would make doing the warranty work on a battery that needs replacing a complete nightmare).

Tesla is the best example of this, the batteries are not designed to easily be swapped, but they are fully capable of doing it without an insane about of work to get it done.

Thus, if a manufacturer wants to make an upgrade sale to an existing customer (that doesn't want to sell/buy vehicles), it's a pretty straightforward option.
 

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Autolycus

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Bill in GA hasn't left committee. Rivian has a chance to push policy some with a really big carrot.
Yep. The bill never got a vote. The GA General Assembly is also done for the year except for special sessions, so the bill has no chance of coming up for a vote until 2022.

Georgia has a lot of positives. Good port access in Savannah, Jacksonville, and Charleston. Good rail facilities all around the state. Good interstate access as well. The best industrial & systems engineering school in the world, which also happens to have excellent mechanical, electrical, computer, and aerospace programs as well. Lots of auto-related facilities are in the state or one of the bordering states. Decent sun exposure if Rivian wants to cover their factory in PV panels. And clearly the state is willing to throw around tax incentives.
 

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I think the notion of tossing in an improved battery with vastly different characteristics and updating the BMS is a gross oversimplification. IMO this will be a combination of cost/ technically prohibitive to ever make sense. It would be great if I'm wrong.
 

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Seems AZ might be a contender.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...second-us-assembly-plant-document-2021-07-27/

EXCLUSIVE Rivian ready to invest $5 billion in second U.S. assembly plant -document
David Shepardson,Paul Lienert

5-6 minutes

R.J. Scaringe, Rivian's CEO, introduces his company's R1T all-electric pickup truck at Los Angeles Auto Show in Los Angeles, California, U.S. November 27, 2018. REUTERS/Mike Blake
WASHINGTON/DETROIT, July 27 (Reuters) - Amazon.com Inc (AMZN.O)-backed Rivian plans to invest $5 billion initially in its second U.S. electric vehicle assembly plant, according to a company document shared with state economic development officials.
The plant, dubbed "Project Tera," requires an estimated 10,000 acres of land according to a revised economic development document seen by Reuters, but economic development officials said finding a piece of land that large would be highly unlikely. The initial proposal seen by Reuters did not identify Rivian by name and said the facility required only 2,000 acres. In comparison, BMW's (BMWG.DE) South Carolina assembly plant sits on about 1,200 acres.
The target date to start production at the Rivian plant is the second quarter of 2023 with construction beginning in the fall of 2021, according to the revised proposal. However, several people familiar with the matter said the COVID-19 pandemic will likely delay that timeline by up to six months.
Rivian declined to comment.
Automakers are racing to develop EVs as China, Europe and other countries and regions mandate lower carbon emissions. In the United States, traditional carmakers like General Motors Co (GM.N) and Ford Motor Co (F.N) are retrofitting plants for EV production, while Tesla Inc (TSLA.O), Taiwanese contract manufacturer Foxconn (2317.TW) and several startups have existing plants or are building them.
The location of the new Rivian plant has not been identified, but among the sites under consideration is land east of Mesa, Arizona, near Gold Canyon, two people familiar with the matter said. Rivian Chief Executive R.J. Scaringe has spoken with Arizona Governor Doug Ducey about the project, one of the sources said.
Officials in Ducey's office and the Arizona Commerce Authority could not reached for comment. The Greater Phoenix Economic Council declined to comment.
Arizona has proven popular in the auto industry due to lower taxes and cost of living, as well as the lack of hurricanes, floods and other disastrous weather that has impacted plants in other regions. Rivian already has a small engineering and test facility in Wittmann, about 35 miles (56 km)northeast of Phoenix.
In Arizona's Pinal County, in a region dubbed the Arizona Innovation and Technology Corridor, EV startups Lucid Group Inc (LCID.O) and Nikola Corp (NKLA.O) have opened or are building assembly plants, while Nissan Motor Co (7201.T) and Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) have vehicle proving grounds.
Pinal County officials said they look forward to attracting more green-energy projects in the future, but declined to comment on the possibility of the Rivian plant.
Last week, Reuters, citing unnamed sources, reported that Rivian planned to build a second U.S. plant that included battery cell production, and that it could be announced in September and break ground next year. Rivian confirmed at the time it was exploring locations to follow its factory in Normal, Illinois, but declined to provide further details. read more
The second plant will expand the company's capacity and include a 50 gigawatt-hour (GWh) battery cell production operation built in phases, as well as a product and technology center, according to the revised 12-page request for proposal sent to states.
"The company has recognized that future production and product plans will not be fully met by the current capacity at Rivian's Normal, Illinois facility," Rivian said in the document.
In addition to an initial investment of about $5 billion, the plant would "support roughly 10,000+ jobs," according to the document. Companies often include jobs indirectly created by a project in their estimates, economic development officials said.
Other automakers have partnered with battery manufacturers on cell production. Samsung SDI Co (006400.KS) supplies battery cells to Rivian in Illinois.
California-based Rivian, also backed by Ford Motor and T. Rowe Price (TROW.O), aims to compete when it rolls out its R1T pickup and R1S SUV, as well as a delivery van for Amazon. Rivian will seek a valuation of well over $50 billion in a potential public listing later this year, a source previously told Reuters.
Rivian has raised $10.5 billion since the start of 2019 including $2.5 billion last week. read more
This year has not been without challenges for Rivian, however, as CEO Scaringe earlier this month told customers the pandemic had delayed the launch of its vehicles. read more
Reporting by David Shepardson in Washington and Paul Lienert in Detroit Writing and additional reporting by Ben Klayman in Detroit Editing by Matthew Lewis
 
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What does service and repair and service documentation have to do with greenfielding a plant for amazon vans(which does not appear to be what this plant is)?

If they were going to build a dedicated plant for Amazon vans, that surely would’ve been done from the outset.
with one dedicated line for Amazon vans, they will be able to crank out the 100k unit order quite easily. There is zero product mix.
Sorry to disagree. There is a certain amount of leverage possible because of the close similarity between Amazon vans and motor homes. One that comes to mind is size. What currently exists in an RIT is too small to attract customers interested in motor homes. Tesla, by the way, has already been involved in prototyping freight trucks, which to my way of thinking puts them far ahead of Rivian, should they decide to produce motor homes, either by up-sizing their recently disclosed pickup truck design or downsizing and incorporating the freight tractor.

If we are to believe the stories on solid state batteries, realizing such future possibilities has nearly arrived. The only criticism I have for current vehicle technology is the self-driving mode. I never want to be within 20 blocks of one of those vehicles. Watching other drivers becoming distracted with cell-phones is indication enough for me. plus having been an actual witness to accidents caused by them. Maybe if a driver pulls out a cell phone and it automatically causes a self-driving vehicle to pull to the side and park such a safety feature might be adequate for those with more money than brains.

As far as comments criticizing the “off-topic” discussion of service and repair, I can't take time to respond. Many others are fully aware of how valuable having that knowledge is. It speaks volumes about the confidence the manufacturer has in their products by fully disclosing the inner workings, which is generally expanded on by other sources.
 

Atlrivian

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After voting down a bill that would have allowed Rivian to sell direct in the state, I know what finger I’d be showing them!
"We want to build your cars, just not let you sell them." I do love the cognitive dissonance from my "pro-business" state.

As others have mentioned, there is a zero percent chance of the direct sales bill seeing the light of day until next year. If I were Rivian, I'd say no dice until they can sell in-state. Otherwise their corporate values mean nothing and they end up looking just as hypocritical as the Georgia political leadership. To win this Kemp will have to do some serious wheeling and dealing, and he doesn't have the political capital among his base due to him not going along with the Trump reelection stuff. As much as I would like it, I just don't see it happening.

However, that site near Savannah is pretty prime...
 

crashmtb

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Sorry to disagree. There is a certain amount of leverage possible because of the close similarity between Amazon vans and motor homes. One that comes to mind is size. What currently exists in an RIT is too small to attract customers interested in motor homes. Tesla, by the way, has already been involved in prototyping freight trucks, which to my way of thinking puts them far ahead of Rivian, should they decide to produce motor homes, either by up-sizing their recently disclosed pickup truck design or downsizing and incorporating the freight tractor.
It would make more sense if rivian sold vans or “Skateboards” to upfitters and RV builders rather than building RVs. Something the size of the Amazon van would make a good base for a class B/C RV, except for the lack of range. A delivery van only needs to get through a day of deliveries, not do a thousand mile day on the highway.

Tesla’s vapourware class 8 semi truck is not the sort of thing that leads to an RV.


presumably you know what scope creep is. Or maybe not, since you’re off in the weeds about RVs.
.
As far as comments criticizing the “off-topic” discussion of service and repair, I can't take time to respond. Many others are fully aware of how valuable having that knowledge is. It speaks volumes about the confidence the manufacturer has in their products by fully disclosing the inner workings, which is generally expanded on by other sources.
Rivian will have to make service/repair information available publicly, it is required by law.
Even Tesla has to do this. All automakers have technical information websites accessible by subscription.

availability of service documentation is a non issue. The fact that it isn’t available when there are no sold R1 in the world is meaningless.
 

Sean

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"We want to build your cars, just not let you sell them." I do love the cognitive dissonance from my "pro-business" state.

As others have mentioned, there is a zero percent chance of the direct sales bill seeing the light of day until next year. If I were Rivian, I'd say no dice until they can sell in-state. Otherwise their corporate values mean nothing and they end up looking just as hypocritical as the Georgia political leadership. To win this Kemp will have to do some serious wheeling and dealing, and he doesn't have the political capital among his base due to him not going along with the Trump reelection stuff. As much as I would like it, I just don't see it happening.

However, that site near Savannah is pretty prime...
Georgia state politics! It's honestly a likely move for Kemp. There's not many big moves he can make before he faces a rematch for Gov. The state is going to own the land and likely give it away with a bucket of tax breaks. Getting 5k jobs wins the pro business crowd and an EV manufacturer wins some sympathy from others. Now it takes two to tango and others also have compiling pitches but I think there's a little too much focus on direct sales. To me it's an easy road to direct sales if there's a $5b plant attached.
 

Autolycus

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The comments about direct sales in Georgia are kind of funny to me. It's not going to change this year, but if there's a factory coming to Georgia, the political calculus changes. Rivian would ultimately be fools to base such an important decision on the direct sales issue. It will certainly be something they ask the "bidding" states for if they don't already allow direct sales, but there's no way they'll turn down what would otherwise be the best offer just because of that. (Not saying Georgia is the best option, just saying that if it is, Rivian would be moronic for going elsewhere.)

Put bluntly: you don't make a decision worth billions over an issue that might cost you thousands.
 

thrill

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...Put bluntly: you don't make a decision worth billions over an issue that might cost you thousands.
The deals states offer will generally be in the area of tax benefits - to the company, not the employees. The differences between the best and second best offer will likely be on the order of a few million dollars, and future ease of working in a state, likely ability to attract others to come work and live there, etc. are certainly non-monetary draws.

FWIW, the Georgia governor has the authority to call a special session of Congress.

States that want those thousands of taxpaying jobs, indeed tens of thousands when you count the support jobs that come along with a major manufacturer, would be fools to not do whatever they needed to make it happen. The morons in this decision would not be Rivian.
 
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