Ready to go.... install my port for charging in garage

[ajdelange]

And it looks just like a 14-30 with the neutral blade missing and just like a 14-60 with the neutral blade missing. Clearly this was put together (or taken apart) to allow them to plug into any of those three types of outlet in order to increase flexibility with respect to charging opportunities for some set of circumstances line the SA to NA run.

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[CommodoreAmiga]

Can't be that simple. The 240V plug is bi-phase (±120V) where as the 5 - 15 is one phase (+120V only). Besides which the EVSE is required to tell the car how much current it is allowed to take which is 12 A from a 5-15 and, either 40 or 32 depending on whether the 14-50 receptacle is wired to a 40A or 50A breaker. Thus the "adapter" has to be able to communicate its nature to the EVSE which probably does via programming "pins" on the EVSE end. IOW it has two connectors, a 14-50P on one end of a cable and another special connector which interfaces with the EVSE itself.

The EVSE is the "box" in the middle of the cord. The part you plug into the wall is just the input. No reason why the adapters can't be simple physical adapters with no special logic or communication. The EVSE can sense the input voltage and if it's 120V then the most it can draw is 15A. If it's 240V then it can draw 32A.

 

[ajdelange]

It's definitely got all 4 pins matching a 14-50 (round pin at the top and 3 vertical blades of the same length) and there's no way it will fit in a 13-50 receptacle, which has a 90-degree bend in it's bottom pin. Here's a different frame and cropped to just the plug:

They're advertising it as 7.6kW, so they're limiting it to 32A to avoid the issue with pulling more than is allowed for 40A hookups using the 14-50 receptacle.

Actually, if I look carefully at the first picture I do see the neutral blade or, actually I see the other hot blade. I always saw the neutral but thought it was the other hot. Guess I need to clean my glasses or I just wanted to give them credit for being clever, but naughty, boys.

 

[ajdelange]

The EVSE is the "box" in the middle of the cord. The part you plug into the wall is just the input. No reason why the adapters can't be simple physical adapters with no special logic or communication. The EVSE can sense the input voltage and if it's 120V then the most it can draw is 15A. If it's 240V then it can draw 32A.

In some cases that's true but in others it isn't. Depends on what they offer. Tesla offers a 5-20 adapter which allows the car to take 16A rather that the 12 A allowable to the the 5-15. They also sell adapters for 240V 30 A receptacles which only allow 24A despite being 240V.

Besides that the good ones (or it may even be required for listing) have a temperature sensor in the plug for safety reasons. The signal from that needs to be communicated.

 

[Autolycus]

Actially, if I look carefully at the first picture I do see the neutral blade. Guess I need to clean my glasses or I just wanted to give them credit for being clever, but naughty, boys.

To be fair to your eyes, the glare on the pins and other wet objects in the rainy background obscure it a little. It would definitely be fun if they had a more universal plug, but there's risk associated with that which isn't worth it.

I do think the better confirmation is their text that specifically notes 14-50, which I should have noticed before I even bothered going to screenshots!

I won't be surprised if they stick to just the 2 plug options initially. Eventually they _should_ offer a 30A adapter that matches the common travel trailer receptacle (I believe it's actually called TT30? It doesn't really match a NEMA number. Closest to 7-20 or 7-50, I think? I'm not an RV guy, so I'm really not sure what those plugs are.)

 

[IHScout]

Just in case anyone was wondering about the wall charger specs

I don't plan on living in my house much more than 24 months from now. How big of a deal would it be to move the wall charger after installation and converting the wires to a 14-50 outlet? I am think maybe best to purchase a different evse that can be plugged in. I currently have a 16amp 10-30 plug for my volt, and that will not be sufficient for our needs with the Rivian.

 

[ajdelange]

It would definitely be fun if they had a more universal plug, but there's risk associated with that which isn't worth it.

I won't be surprised if they stick to just the 2 plug options initially. Eventually they _should_ offer a 30A adapter that matches the common travel trailer receptacle (I believe it's actually called TT30? It doesn't really match a NEMA number. Closest to 7-20 or 7-50, I think? I'm not an RV guy, so I'm really not sure what those plugs are.)

I don't know about that. We'll see. When I started out with BEV I was, as many are, terrified of running out of juice somewhere or other and so bought every adapter I could find from Tesla (which sold a kit of about a dozen) and third party suppliers e.g. things like this one:
https://www.evseadapters.com/products/tt-30p-to-nema-14-50r-ev-adapter/ which handles the tt30 you mentioned. Now it, and any other third party ones obviously negate the programming of the EVSE as you plug this into the trailer park and then plug the 14-50R adapter into this. The 14-50 adapter says to the car "you can have up to 32 A" and the tt30 is on a 30 Amp circuit. It is thus up to you to turn your maximum charging level down to under 30 if you don't want to pop the campground's breaker and to below 24A if you want to comply with the non intermittent load rule. Is this worse than the risks that would attend the more universal NEMA 14 series plug which is clearly available to any clever, but naughty, boy with a hacksaw?

I must say none of those adapters has ever been out of the frunk except to experiment with. I've never charged on the road except from a Supercharger or Destination charger (and that only once). But Rivian doesn't have the Tesla network so I guess I'll move all that stuff over to the Rivian (and by their adapter assortment if they offer it).

I also carry a 50' 14-50 extension cord.

 

[ajdelange]

I don't plan on living in my house much more than 24 months from now. How big of a deal would it be to move the wall charger after installation and converting the wires to a 14-50 outlet? I am think maybe best to purchase a different evse that can be plugged in. I currently have a 16amp 10-30 plug for my volt, and that will not be sufficient for our needs with the Rivian.

Not a big deal at all if you follow the suggestions in No. 53 when you install it.

The hard wired units give you 48 amps as opposed to a max of 40 for the plug in ones and thus allow you to charge 20% faster. You will have to decide whether that is significant enough to drive you one way or the other.

 

[Autolycus]

I don't plan on living in my house much more than 24 months from now. How big of a deal would it be to move the wall charger after installation and converting the wires to a 14-50 outlet? I am think maybe best to purchase a different evse that can be plugged in. I currently have a 16amp 10-30 plug for my volt, and that will not be sufficient for our needs with the Rivian.

Would 7.6kW (16 mi/hour, according to Rivian) be sufficient for your needs? If so, one option is to just get a 14-50 outlet and then use the portable charger. If you're only really charging at home except for occasional trips, it might not be too big of a deal to not have a permanent EVSE installed at all.

I think ajdelange is right that it's not a huge deal to replace a hardwired EVSE with a 14-50 before you move, but if you're not comfortable doing the electrical work yourself, that's another trip from an electrician. If you go that route, I would definitely tell the electrician doing the initial install that your plan is to eventually make that change before selling the house so they can make sure to do the initial EVSE install in a logical way for the later swap.

If you want something permanent but don't think 48A vs. 40A (25 mi/hr vs. 20 mi/hr) is a big difference, there are some great plug-in 40A EVSE's out there.

 

[DucRider]

I won't be surprised if they stick to just the 2 plug options initially. Eventually they _should_ offer a 30A adapter that matches the common travel trailer receptacle (I believe it's actually called TT30? It doesn't really match a NEMA number. Closest to 7-20 or 7-50, I think? I'm not an RV guy, so I'm really not sure what those plugs are.)

TT30 is a 30A 120V supply.
SAE standards limit 120V AC (L1) to 16A

The most that a J1772 compliant EV can draw from a TT30 is 1.9kW.
A touch better than the 1.4kW usually allowed by OEM charge cords (they come with a 5-15 and assume a 15A circuit). Not enough to make a significant difference.

If you want something permanent but don't think 48A vs. 40A (25 mi/hr vs. 20 mi/hr) is a big difference, there are some great plug-in 40A EVSE's out there.

The Rivan EVSE can be hardwired and set for (likely up to) 48A.
It can also be configured with a 14-50 and set to 40A (and likely 32A as well)

 

[SANZC02]

Would 7.6kW (16 mi/hour, according to Rivian) be sufficient for your needs? If so, one option is to just get a 14-50 outlet and then use the portable charger. If you're only really charging at home except for occasional trips, it might not be too big of a deal to not have a permanent EVSE installed at all.

I think ajdelange is right that it's not a huge deal to replace a hardwired EVSE with a 14-50 before you move, but if you're not comfortable doing the electrical work yourself, that's another trip from an electrician. If you go that route, I would definitely tell the electrician doing the initial install that your plan is to eventually make that change before selling the house so they can make sure to do the initial EVSE install in a logical way for the later swap.

If you want something permanent but don't think 48A vs. 40A (25 mi/hr vs. 20 mi/hr) is a big difference, there are some great plug-in 40A EVSE's out there.

Don't forget if they hard wire a wall unit and change the breaker to a 60 amp to get the full 48 amp capability if you then want to go to a 14-50R you need to change the breaker to a 50 Amp to be in code compliance. If I was planning to move and wanting to take the charger with me I would probably run a 14-50R and use a plug in wall charger at 40 amps.

The other option is to plan on leaving the charger when you move, I would think in2 years (even probably today) that having a 48 amp charger installed would be a selling point.

 

[Autolycus]

TT30 is a 30A 120V supply.
SAE standards limit 120V AC (L1) to 16A

The most that a J1772 compliant EV can draw from a TT30 is 1.9kW.
A touch better than the 1.4kW usually allowed by OEM charge cords (they come with a 5-15 and assume a 15A circuit). Not enough to make a significant difference.

Ah, right. I had forgotten that's 120V service rather than 240V. You're right, that's not worth much then.

The Rivan EVSE can be hardwired and set for (likely up to) 48A.
It can also be configured with a 14-50 and set to 40A (and likely 32A as well)

I had thought there was information about it being either hardwired or setup for 14-50, but I cannot seem to find it anywhere on Rivian's website. It had me 2nd guessing myself and then wondering if they changed their mind on that.

Don't forget if they hard wire a wall unit and change the breaker to a 60 amp to get the full 48 amp capability if you then want to go to a 14-50R you need to change the breaker to a 50 Amp to be in code compliance. If I was planning to move and wanting to take the charger with me I would probably run a 14-50R and use a plug in wall charger at 40 amps.

The other option is to plan on leaving the charger when you move, I would think in2 years (even probably today) that having a 48 amp charger installed would be a selling point.

Very good point about needing to change the breaker to 50A. Another thing I would personally not touch myself. I also agree that it's not the end of the world leaving an EVSE behind, but you won't break even on it, and you'd have to buy a new one for the new house.

If I knew I were moving, I would probably go with a plug-in variety and accept 40A charging, but I won't even have to plug in every day at 40A.

 

[ajdelange]

TT30 is a 30A 120V supply.
SAE standards limit 120V AC (L1) to 16A

The most that a J1772 compliant EV can draw from a TT30 is 1.9kW.

I have never tried this TT30 adapter. The EVSE tells the car (Tesla) that it can draw 32 A. It have no what the car would do were it to be confronted with the apparently conflicting messages that it can take 30 A but the available voltage is only 120. Tesla is only J1772 compliant in the sense that it can charge from J1772 EVSE.

The real point is that if you use ANY third party adapter you take the chance that programmed protections from the EVSE designed to use the EVSE manufacturer's adapters are over ridden. In some cases this is certain and these products come with a caveats (in the form of an attached label) that you must crank down charging rate. I do carry some of these and would try them in an emergency but I certainly don't recommend their use on a daily basis.

If anyone really wants to charge from TT30 the obvious thing to do is contact Rivian and ask them how to do it.

 

[IHScout]

Would 7.6kW (16 mi/hour, according to Rivian) be sufficient for your needs? If so, one option is to just get a 14-50 outlet and then use the portable charger. If you're only really charging at home except for occasional trips, it might not be too big of a deal to not have a permanent EVSE installed at all.

I think ajdelange is right that it's not a huge deal to replace a hardwired EVSE with a 14-50 before you move, but if you're not comfortable doing the electrical work yourself, that's another trip from an electrician. If you go that route, I would definitely tell the electrician doing the initial install that your plan is to eventually make that change before selling the house so they can make sure to do the initial EVSE install in a logical way for the later swap.

If you want something permanent but don't think 48A vs. 40A (25 mi/hr vs. 20 mi/hr) is a big difference, there are some great plug-in 40A EVSE's out there.

I do feel that the portable evse would be sufficient for our needs. My wife's main concern was forgetting to put it in the vehicle before long trips, so for peace of mind we were planning on the Rivian Wall Charger. We'll probably just purchase a 14-50 evse and then upgrade to the wall charger when I update my vehicle in a few years. Thank you to you and @ajdelange for the feedback.

 

[ajdelange]

Don't forget if they hard wire a wall unit and change the breaker to a 60 amp to get the full 48 amp capability if you then want to go to a 14-50R you need to change the breaker to a 50 Amp to be in code compliance.

Or you could pop in a 14-60R instead. Actually I'd change the breaker. 14-60 isn't that common. OTOH if you put in the 14-60 you only have to buy the outlet. If you put in the 14-50 and change the breaker you have to buy both.

The other option is to plan on leaving the charger when you move, I would think in2 years (even probably today) that having a 48 amp charger installed would be a selling point.

In 2 years that EVSE will be a museum piece.

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