Rants and Raves after 2 months of Rivian R1T ownership [DISCLAIMER: Unauthorized feedback from non-owner]

[SeaGeo]

Usually agree with you, but my experience with beta testing hardware and software is that feedback is NOT for public consumption.

Yeah, Carter explained the reasoning better which is a different take on proprietary info than I was thinking. Basically for internal eyes only.

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[Gearhead500]

So then how many "customer" vehicles did rivian really get out? I didn't see Sony counting ps5's they sent to game developers to test t as sales before release ?.

I’m just going to say this once for you and others who clearly haven’t tested beta hardware and software. If you pay for it, the intention is that it will be production quality after a certain period of your NDA or after you opt out of beta past the contractually obligated timeframe.
If it was free, which these were not, then you get what you pay for.

Rivian has every right and desire not to screw over these employees. BUT they are giving them a discount to beta test. How hard is this? I’m confounded!

Edit- adding 3 points
1. I was getting caught up and responded to @SeaGeo late. So sorry about that.
2. Leave the thread but I’m ignoring it. It’s just delved into craziness IMO
3. Thank you @Iwantatesla

 

[cmiller]

I’m just going to say this once for you and others who clearly haven’t tested beta hardware and software. If you pay for it, the intention is that it will be production quality after a certain period of your NDA or after you opt out of beta past the contractually obligated timeframe.
If it was free, which these were not, then you get what you pay for.

Rivian has every right and desire not to screw over these employees. BUT they are giving them a discount to beta test. How hard is this? I’m confounded!

Edit- adding 3 points
1. I was getting caught up and responded to @SeaGeo late. So sorry about that.
2. Leave the thread but I’m ignoring it. It’s just delved into craziness IMO
3. Thank you @Iwantatesla

Think people are just saying don't call them customer deliveries if they are being used to test and not full customer released versions. Have you ever beta tested anything because companies don't count the hardware and advertise that hardware that is being beta tested as customer delivers. I could care are less about hearing issues with a test vehicle because that's a point of a test vehicle, but once they start saying they have delivered customer vehicles, then yea I want to hear about the issues for a completed and released vehicle. You need to relax. It's a forum and people will have their opinions. If you don't like it then continue to avoid this thread

 

[time]

Wait, so all references, even quoted stuff was taken down? Ahhh, ok

I'm not going to forget about truck's allegedly slow window switch response though. Something about it taking a few seconds move after pressing the switch. Nope, that's good for us all to know and test before taking delivery. Just can't have it. Any delay whatsoever would be unacceptable. Its a window switch, common.

Now if that criticism turns out not true or is a minor some bug Rivian fixes right away, great - no issue. The QA notes that were posted wouldn't tarnish anything in my mind as long as Rivian fixes them. Everyone should know this stuff. We don't want to discover it after it's too late to do anything. We should know all the flaws and Rivian's response should be they're fixing. I don't agree with hiding the information.

 

[SANZC02]

Wait, so all references, even quoted stuff was taken down? Ahhh, ok

I'm not going to forget about truck's allegedly slow window switch response though. Something about it taking a few seconds move after pressing the switch. Nope, that's good for us all to know and test before taking delivery. Just can't have it. Any delay whatsoever would be unacceptable. Its a window switch, common.

Now if that criticism turns out not true or is a minor some bug Rivian fixes right away, great - no issue. The QA notes that were posted wouldn't tarnish anything in my mind as long as Rivian fixes them. Everyone should know this stuff. We don't want to discover it after it's too late to do anything. We should know all the flaws and Rivian's response should be they're fixing. I don't agree with hiding the information.

FWIW, the truck I drove at Agua Dolce had no issues or delays with the window switches.

 

[time]

FWIW, the truck I drove at Agua Dolce had no issues or delays with the window switches.

Fantastic to hear! Probably not even a real issue then. It wasn't something I tested while there but its certainly something I'll double check just in case. The staff wouldn't let me try the power tonneau cover at Agua Dolce and I was a little suspect of that. It's also on my list of "to test" before committing.

Though I didn't see it in the earlier comments, in my own experience, I couldn't get my Samsung z-flip phone to pair at all before the test drive. Hoping that was also just a one-off too.

 

[Craigins]

Wait, so all references, even quoted stuff was taken down? Ahhh, ok

I'm not going to forget about truck's allegedly slow window switch response though. Something about it taking a few seconds move after pressing the switch. Nope, that's good for us all to know and test before taking delivery. Just can't have it. Any delay whatsoever would be unacceptable. Its a window switch, common.

Now if that criticism turns out not true or is a minor some bug Rivian fixes right away, great - no issue. The QA notes that were posted wouldn't tarnish anything in my mind as long as Rivian fixes them. Everyone should know this stuff. We don't want to discover it after it's too late to do anything. We should know all the flaws and Rivian's response should be they're fixing. I don't agree with hiding the information.

I would not compare the employee vehicle software performance to the non employee vehicle software.

As many others have stated, they are essentially beta testing on them. That means additional debug info, i.e. logging, that can create artificial slowdowns compared to release versions.

Infact that was my first assumption when they mentioned the phantom drain, the programmers were most likely logging a ton of info keeping the vehicle active, potentially even transmitting the data back over cell.

None of their comments are relevant to your expected experience. We already have one kind user who has a vehicle and is not an employee. Follow their posts for accurate representation of the final product.

 

[Trandall]

I must say this thread has been a microcosm of the Whole R1 Rollout... epic highs and lows, suspense, drama... If I was a screenwriter I would make it into a movie. 23 pages in 1 week, epic.
I don't understand the contention of counting employee deliveries or not. is this from an investor standpoint? It's clear Rivian made a decision to produce some very early vehicles for employees at a discount but with strings attached. Not going to die on either hill of it's a delivery or it's not and it makes little difference.
I highly recommend thoroughly inspecting the R1 that shows up in your driveway when it's time to take delivery and either accept it (possibly with warranty claims) or reject it at that time. This is the case with a brand new product vehicle regardless of how you count these early deliveries whatever they are . I also don't understand why anyone would cancel their order until they were faced with the decision to commit to the purchase unless they simply needed their thousand bucks back.

 

[r1t_kev]

I also don't understand why anyone would cancel their order until they were faced with the decision to commit to the purchase unless they simply needed their thousand bucks back.

This. That someone would cancel their order, with months (or years) of refining/development left before taking delivery, is baffling to me. As you say, the decision to accept your vehicle isn't made until you sign on the dotted line. That's not to say concern isn't warranted in the meantime, but with a bit of perspective and patience.

 

[Sdvictor]

BTW, not tracking this thread entirely, but have a funny anecdote about the power windows. when we did our first mile test drive, the auto up/down switches were working sporadically and random between the windows.

 

[Interferon]

This is why any car manufacturer that doesn't include Android Auto/CarPlay shouldn't even be considered for purchase.
A car company will never have the developer resources of the entire Android ecosystem. And their nav software will never compete with a trillion dollar software companies' product, like Google Maps.
It is very easy to add the AA/CP. The fact they don't bother to do so means they plan on screwing their customers by holding them hostage for add-on functionality.

 

[Inkedsphynx]

I'll flip that script a bit.

A car company will never have the security holes and vulnerabilities and general issues with a huge open-source ecosystem that Android Auto/Apple CarPlay have.

That said, Apple has at least some edge there because they maintain better controls around their sandbox.

And no, that doesn't mean that Rivian's system couldn't have vulnerabilities either, just that it's a smaller and more well-controlled ecosystem.

Someday we'll stop having to worry about putting our seatbelts on when we get in our cars, and instead we'll be worrying about whether some new vulnerability is going to let some bottom-dweller hijack our car mid-transit and tell the autopilot to drive into a wall.

Yes, I know, crazy security guy rants from soapbox.

 

[lostpacket]

A car company will never have the security holes and vulnerabilities and general issues with a huge open-source ecosystem that Android Auto/Apple CarPlay have.

As far as I can tell Rivian's infotainment system is based on Android along with about a half dozen other auto manufacturers

I think there is some argument to be made that locking down an OS from 3rd party install provides security benefits. But the threat level/functionality tradeoff level is hard to quantify and is heavily dependent on user behavior. [made up numbers] If 0.02% of CarPlay users are at risk to get a virus, but only 0.01% of Tesla users, is that worth losing the ecosystem? Who knows. Plus if you're someone who is smart enough not to install SuperDuperAngryBirdsMakeFreeBitcoin.apk on your phone, maybe your threat profile is more akin to the Tesla user?

Either way Google heavily scrutinizes car apps. (And I am sure Apple does likewise).

Apps for cars are subject to an additional manual review beyond normal Play Store review processes. Your app will be tested to ensure Driver Distraction Regulation compliance against the criteria described above.

I think you're right to be mindful of security though

 

[Inkedsphynx]

Information Security is my trade, so I'm always thinking about it.

The issue at play isn't the base OS, it's the ecosystem of apps around it. Apple and Google both do some level of vetting on apps in their store, but every day malicious apps still get past. The problem with it involving your car is it only takes 1 compromise to severely screw things up. Even beyond just driving you into a wall, what happens when a Tesla semi gets taken over due to software vulnerability and driven into a crowd of pedestrians?

Look, I'm not saying these things are likely, just that there is risk involved, and the more 'open' the ecosystem, the greater the risk. I can't quantify that risk from where I sit (I can actually, but would need so much more information than I have available to me) but I do know that I'll happily take some loss in quality of life functionality in exchange for being safer in my 7000lb moving rocket ship

 

[Craigins]

Information Security is my trade, so I'm always thinking about it.

The issue at play isn't the base OS, it's the ecosystem of apps around it. Apple and Google both do some level of vetting on apps in their store, but every day malicious apps still get past. The problem with it involving your car is it only takes 1 compromise to severely screw things up. Even beyond just driving you into a wall, what happens when a Tesla semi gets taken over due to software vulnerability and driven into a crowd of pedestrians?

Look, I'm not saying these things are likely, just that there is risk involved, and the more 'open' the ecosystem, the greater the risk. I can't quantify that risk from where I sit (I can actually, but would need so much more information than I have available to me) but I do know that I'll happily take some loss in quality of life functionality in exchange for being safer in my 7000lb moving rocket ship

My first thought was, if Rivian did expand to carplay/Android auto, that there better be some form of virtualization there to separate out the vehicle OS from the random apps on the users phone.

My second thought was that this would be too common sense and probably wouldn't happen lol.

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