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Rhidan

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I believe they are not doing the 180 and 135 battery packs anymore as they mentioned somewhere they are not going to need that size to achieve the 300 and 400 range. I could be wrong too
I thought the skateboards were modular and used 15kWh modules? So unless the mileage estimates were sufficiently high that they could remove an entire 15kWh module, then I doubt they'll change the pack size.
They have stopped identifying the packs as 135kWh and 180kWh. My guess is that it has more to do with the switch in the industry to reporting "useable battery capacity" rather than a change to the actual number of batteries Rivian is using.

For example, Ford advertises the Mach E extended battery "useable capacity" as 88kWh, when we know the physical battery in the vehicle is 98kWh. Advertising the vehicle based on the "useable capacity" better describes the vehicle efficiency (or makes the efficiency look better on paper).

On the other hand, Tesla doesn't even advertise battery size for its vehicles. Rivian may have just decided not to use kWh figures and would rather advertise vehicles based on estimated range in miles.

I don't think we've heard any evidence that there has been a change to the pack size.
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SeaGeo

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Rivian may have just decided not to use kWh figures and would rather advertise vehicles based on estimated range in miles.
I'll be so annoyed if they show everything in the car as miles rather than kw. My ID.4 shows charging in mi/min and it's drives me nuts. It's not even a constant value, they estimate it based on recent efficiency.
 
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thibbitts

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I don't think we've heard any evidence that there has been a change to the pack size.
[/QUOTE]

That is true for the R1T but Rivian plans to have a max pack R1S that is smaller than that of the R1T but bigger than the large pack. We haven't heard what that will be yet though.
 

888tom888

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In general, I find that when ranges are quoted by manufacturers as a "more than number" it is usually less than a middle number. For example, 300+ is probably between 301-349 miles per charge. As a Tesla owner, there are so many variables to take into account. Type of charger: Level 1, 2, or 3. Cleanliness of the power source. L3 chargers in my experience are fairly clean so when I charge to full, I tend to get my 306 miles my M3P is "supposed" to get. At my home, a full charge on my L2 charger nets me on average around 295-300 miles. That said, the "charge" you get will matter less than the way the car/truck is driven. I"m a heavy lead foot on freeways and while I start out with 300+ my actual ranger drops to around 240 miles. So while its fun to claim whatever the number is, actual usage will determine your true range. Still can't wait to get my R1S. Hurry up and build Rivian
 

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In this range estimate, assuming the Max Pack giving a range of about 430 miles (wish we knew which wheels.) 430 miles divided by 180 kWh = 2.39 miles per kWh. Now, multiplying 2.39 x 135 kWh (large pack) = 322 miles (may actually be slightly more as the large pack weighs less.) If this is true, I can live with the large pack! If the Max Pack were available at Launch, it is possible that many could be persuaded to go with it despite the extra $10k. But, since it is NOT offered, a lot of will not be wiling to wait and get in the back of the line for a Max Pack. This will be something to discuss further with a Guide once the true EPA numbers are announced sometime before the first deliveries the last week of July...just guessing and trying not to over expect.
I doubt they changed the wheels from the Austin event. In that case they appear to be the light 20” ATs
 

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Pedritho

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Hello all,

Long time lurker here posting for the first time. Like all of you, I've been tracking Rivian pretty close over the last couple of years and the obsession has only grown. I tend to parse through new content pretty closely and came across a flicker of estimated range on the instrument cluster in the latest Rivian story about the interior:

Steering wheel and instrument cluster.png


It might be hard to see, so here's a zoomed in shot (bottom right):

Range on instrument cluser.png


That's 303 miles. This is a screenshot taken from the video that plays on loop at the top of the story.

Shortly after in that video is a shot of the center display and the vehicle location:

Location.png


They're on Basin Junction road, which leads to Big Bend National Park in Texas. I've done a lot of sleuthing to confirm that the scenery/terrian visible throughout the looped video is visible from that road, so I'm pretty confident they are where the map displays. With confirmation of the approximate location of the vehicle at the time the video was taken with 303 miles of range left, we can start to speculate on the amount of range available at full charge.

I'm certain that this detour to Big Bend took place on the recent Texas-to-California trip in late April (which is when Bajadahl spotted them in Austin) because of hints in the webpage source code. Absent further evidence, I'm making the assumption that they departed Austin on I-10 heading west and probably stopped at Fort Stockton to stay the night for an early morning departure. Given their proclivity to charge at Electrify America chargers, I'd bet that they charged to full at the EA charger in Fort Stockton in the morning before heading out south.

Plugshare Stockton.png


Google - Stockton to Basin.png

Departing between 9:00 am and 9:30 am and after a drive of roughly 2 hours and 129 miles, they arrive on Basin Junction road with 303 miles left around 11:24 AM (displayed above on the instrument cluster for range and the center display for time). This would give the vehicle they are driving a total range of roughly 432 miles, which is a reasonable range estimate for the Max pack. I assume that they would be driving a vehicle with the Max pack since they were on a pretty long road trip.

There are two other places they could have feasibly charged on the way from I-10 to Big Bend, however: Marathon Motel & RV Park and Stillwell Ranch Store & RV Park. Both are NEMA 14-50 plugs and would likely require an overnight stay to hit the full charge that would be required to have the 303 mile range at Basin Junction road visible on the instrument cluster. Only Marathon Motel & RV Park has lodging, so that is the next likeliest location.

Plugshare Marathon.png


Google Marathon to Basin.png


Provided they stayed overnight and departed in the morning from the Motel with a full charge, that would give the vehicle they are driving a total range of roughly ~375 miles. I would consider that a high range for the Large Pack and low range for the Max Pack, making this charging scenario unlikely in my opinion.

The last possibility is Stillwell Ranch Store & RV Park:

Plugshare Stillwell.png


Google Stillwell to Basin.png


Charging to full here would likely require camping in a tent overnight, which I wouldn't put it past them to do. Departing in the morning with a full charge would give them roughly 340 miles of range, which I would consider a generous estimate for the mid-range Large Pack but not unreasonable. Again, however, I think it's unlikely that they would be using the Large Pack because the trip they were on was a long one and range is king in these scenarios. I consider this scenario unlikely for that reason.

---

I admit there are a number of assumptions made in this post, but I also think there may be something here. If anything, it's fun to speculate while we wait for official range numbers!

Enjoy!
Love this! Thanks for putting in the time and sharing this. I'd love for Rivian to put this on their Stories page and give you a shoutout, its great marketing for them!
 

ajdelange

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They have stopped identifying the packs as 135kWh and 180kWh. My guess is that it has more to do with the switch in the industry to reporting "useable battery capacity" rather than a change to the actual number of batteries Rivian is using.
I think it has to do with the fact that "battery capacity" can mean so many things. We hope that one day SAE/EPA will have a standard definition which everyone will be forced to use and that they will be forced to publish that number. Until then there is too much leeway in how 97.5 kWh can be interpreted and misinterpreted. I think the OEMs have decided to keep battery size under their hats for this reason.

For example, Ford advertises the Mach E extended battery "useable capacity" as 88kWh, when we know the physical battery in the vehicle is 98kWh. Advertising the vehicle based on the "useable capacity" better describes the vehicle efficiency (or makes the efficiency look better on paper).

On the other hand, Tesla doesn't even advertise battery size for its vehicles.
They have gone farther than that. They have removed the sticker from the battery that used to specify the size.

Rivian may have just decided not to use kWh figures and would rather advertise vehicles based on estimated range in miles.
They are currently required to report mileage under a carefully specified and monitored protocol. Even so there is misinterpretation as to what the numbers mean. There are those here that adamantly insist that the system should be changed so that the EPA number matches their personal driving style.


I don't think we've heard any evidence that there has been a change to the pack size.
True but if they want to they can change it without saying anything and none will be any the wiser. The more information they can keep from the consumer/stockholder the less they have to worry about lawsuits, shortsellers, etc.
 

cohall

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Cleanliness of the power source. L3 chargers in my experience are fairly clean so when I charge to full, I tend to get my 306 miles my M3P is "supposed" to get. At my home, a full charge on my L2 charger nets me on average around 295-300 miles.
Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I'm new to EVs. Is power 'cleanliness' really a thing? I would have assumed that once the cells are charged to capacity, then where they received the charge from shouldn't matter. But you're saying that you could lose 2-3% of range based solely on your quality of power source.

What makes a charger clean versus dirty anyway? @ajdelange ?
 

ajdelange

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"Clean" power (if it doesn't refer to whether it is generated from fossil fuel) usually refers to the total harmonic distortion of the waveform. That is defined as the ratio of the RSS (square root of the sum of the squares of the rms voltages of all the harmonics: 120, 180, 240 Hz...) of the harmonics divided by the rms voltage of the fundamental (60 Hz). Utilities generally run a percent or 2 and what's coming out of my inverters right now is about 1.1% Harmonics can cause problems where steel (transformers, motors...) are involved but the chargers in your cars don't have any of those so harmonics aren't a problem - certainly not at these levels. With a Super Charger the mains power is, just as in your car, rectified before anything else is done with it and so if there are porblems with harmonics from the utility it gets dealt with at the transformer that feeds the cabinets. What goes to your battery is DC with, probably, quite a bit of ripple which could be counted as THD but your battery does not care. Thus, cleanliness of the mains power is not a problem for L2 or L3 charging.
 
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BoltEVowner

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I doubt they changed the wheels from the Austin event. In that case they appear to be the light 20” ATs
If that's true, I might be persuaded to get the 20 inch AT wheels! Just need those EPA numbers for each wheel option to make intelligent decisions! Maybe we will get those numbers in 3-4 weeks.
 

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Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I'm new to EVs. Is power 'cleanliness' really a thing? I would have assumed that once the cells are charged to capacity, then where they received the charge from shouldn't matter. But you're saying that you could lose 2-3% of range based solely on your quality of power source.

What makes a charger clean versus dirty anyway? @ajdelange ?
Complete hogwash!
 

Bumble1978

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"Clean" power (if it doesn't refer to whether it is generated from fossil fuel) usually refers to the total harmonic distortion of the waveform. That is defined as the ratio of the RSS (square root of the sum of the squares of the rms voltages of all the harmonics: 120, 180, 240 Hz...) of the harmonics divided by the rms voltage of the fundamental (60 Hz). Utilities generally run a percent or 2 and what's coming out of my inverters right now is about 1.1% Harmonics can cause problems where steel (transformers, motors...) are involved but the chargers in you car don't have any of those so harmonics aren't a problem - certainly not at these levels. With a Super Charger the mains power is, just as in your car, rectified before anything else is done with it and so if there are porblems with harmonics from the utility it gets dealt with at the transformer that feeds the cabinets. What goes to your battery is DC with, probably, quite a bit of ripple which could be counted as THD but your battery does not care. Thus, cleanliness of the mains power is not a problem for L2 or L3 charging.
@ajdelange I love everything about this post, and learned stuff.

However I will say that I read it a second time with Hank Azaria's 'Professor Frink' Character voice from The Simpsons...and I loved it even more... ✌❤⚡??

Rivian R1T R1S Range visible in latest Rivian Story 60c35b1740be2992f65d76a42c0bbfd6
 

Bumble1978

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I'd try this myself, but I'm not that familiar with the locations in West Texas...

@ThatOneGuy ?

If we ran these trips through ABRP using all three ?'s of the Alpha (aka Theoretical Efficiency Guesstimation Algorithm) versions for the R1T...would we see similar results?!? ?✌❤⚡??
 

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CS agent today told me the emphasis of the Large vs Max pack is in miles of range, not kWh, AND that the kWh may have changed from the 135/180. He didn't say it had changed, but MAY have changed. Hard to say if he really knew, but emphasis on miles per pack at this point.
 

Bumble1978

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CS agent today told me the emphasis of the Large vs Max pack is in miles of range, not kWh, AND that the kWh may have changed from the 135/180. He didn't say it had changed, but MAY have changed. Hard to say if he really knew, but emphasis on miles per pack at this point.
Agreed, could also speculate that if they were able to find a happy medium and software-restrict the Large pack like Tesla does for Model3. Decide on one pack weight/physical size that gets the Max Pack to the 400+ and software restrict down from there?!? ?

Then they would only have to physically make a smaller pack for the future standard range model. They'd only need to build/configure two packs instead of three? ?
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