Range Against the Machine¹ - Rivian OEM Wheels, Tires, and Range Considered

[tps5352]

Here is a recent new delivery report by a R1T Tri Max buyer. What catches my eye is that the Tri Max he purchased apparently came with 275/65R20 Pirelli AT tires.

I will keep looking for more photos of new Tri Max vehicles to evaluate the AT tire size issue (if indeed there even is an issue).

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[Davethadog]

I’d rather read war and peace again.

 

[tps5352]

December 2024 Update: After inquiring (on Reddit, Rivian Forums, and Rivian Owners Forum) and hearing back from owners, I am increasingly convinced that Gen 2 Dual Large, Dual Max, and Tri Max vehicles with the optional All-Terrain Package have so far received 275/65R20 (34") tires (just like Gen 1 vehicles did).

It is possible that Rivian is just using up its remaining stock of 34" AT tires and will eventually switch to 33" AT tires for some or all models. That is just speculation. I'll keep investigating. But for now I'll revise the OP accordingly.​

***​

The idea that Rivian is using AT 33" tires may have started because Gen 2 Dual Standard vehicles (only) do come with 275/60R20 (33") Goodyear Wrangler AT tires for the "All-Season" option. (The All-Terrain Package is currently not an advertised option for the Dual Standard vehicles.)

The choice between OEM 33" and 34" tires can make a difference to consumers due to:

• The availability of aftermarket replacement tires in those two sizes.
• The need to change (currently only by Rivian service, for a fee) onboard software settings when changing tire sizes.
• The weight, efficiency and range of the various wheel-sets.
• Tire fit and potential rubbing (e.g., with aftermarket wheel rims).

I continue to welcome comments, especially from owners of Gen 2 Dual Large, Dual Max, and Tri Max vehicles with the All-Terrain Package.

 

[tps5352]

December 22, 2024 Update (concerning 20" AT tires):

On the Rivian "All Gear" Page

• A Gen 1 and Gen 2 275/65R20 All-Terrain full-sized spare wheel-tire is still listed (for R1T), along with (Gen 1-only) 21" Road and (Gen 1-only?) 22" Sport wheel-tires.
  |
• New (to me) is Rivian & Tire Rack/America's Tire/Discount Tire partnership page and link.
  |
  • Interestingly--on the Rivian-Tire Rack page for 2025 (Gen 2) vehicles--only 275/60R20 (33") OEM tires are listed as replacement for 20-inch wheels. (True for both R1T and R1S.)
    |
    
    
    
    |
  • In Comparison, for 2022, 2023, & 2024 (Gen 1 [& 2024 Gen 2?]) vehicles, only 275/65R20 (34") OEM tires are listed for 20-inch wheels. (True for both R1T and R1S.)

Perplexing (to me). This could mean that:

1. Rivian does indeed plan to switch exclusively to all-33-inch OEM AT tires in 2025,...or
   |
2. The Tire Rack page is in error.

Regardless, this might mean (pessimistically) that initial customers with 2025 model-year Dual Standard, Dual Max, and Tri Max vehicles (whether delivered in 2024 or 2025) who happen to want (the original Gen 1 and Gen 2) 34" replacement AT tires will have to politely 'discuss' (debate/argue?) the situation with Tire Rack/America's Tire/Discount Tire staff and be prepared to justify their reasoning. (Or maybe [optimistically] there will be no problem and/or this issue will quickly be cleared up at some or all stores across the Country?)

By the way; unless subject to new information, I'll continue to assume that nothing has physically changed that now disallows the use of 34-inch AT tires on 2025 Gen 2 Rivian vehicles? (If there is new information, please let us all know.)

Meanwhile, owners with vehicles purchased and delivered in 2024 (even those with so-called '2025' model-year vehicles) should (on paper) not have any 34-inch tire replacement push-back problems, since as far as I can tell Dual Large, Dual Max, and Tri Max Gen 2 '2025' models being issued with AT tires are currently receiving 34-inch tires from the factory.

For owners of Gen 1 or of 22-inch-wheeled vehicles, this may appear to be a "tempest in a teapot" (not worthy of discussion). But for several reasons it does matter whether you start with or are able to switch to 33- or 34-inch AT tires on 20-inch rims. Hopefully it will all get straightened out and Rivian owners will continue to have the freedom in 2025 to select whatever tire size (within reason) they want to at those Tire Rack/Discount Tire/America's Tire establishments (one of the largest tire sellers in North America).​

 

[tps5352]

January 6, 2025 Update: Based on a (still) small sample size (maybe 25-30 responses by drivers on Reddit and Rivian Forums) is seems that Rivian is still outfitting Gen 2 All-Terrain Package cars with 275/65R20 (34") tires. (So far, no one has reported the 275/60R20 AT tire on a new 2025 Gen 2 Dual Large, Dual Max, or Tri Max car.*)

Whether Rivian will change to the smaller 33" AT tires later in 2025 is anybody's guess. (But why do some Rivian webpage photos, on close examination, show 275/60R20 33" AT Pirelli Scorpion AT tires?**)

Screenshots of photos from the Rivian Gear Shop webpage
showing details from 20" wheels with Pirelli Scorpion AT tires.
(AT Classic wheel-set on left; AT Dark wheel-set on right.) On
close examination the lettering clearly says 275/60R20 in
images used for "Full-Size Spare Tire" page (for R1T), and
for "20 in All-Terrain Wheel and Tire Set" page
(for Gen 1 & Gen 2 vehicles).

And, as near as I can tell, there is no Pirelli Scorpion AT tire in the
275/60R20 size available retail (at least in my area). Were the Rivian
photos "Photoshopped"? Were they based on a Pirelli prototype?

Finally, the wheel-tire specs on both the Rivian "Full Size Spare Tire" and
"20 in All-Terrain Wheel and Tire Set" pages list the 275/65R20 tire size. At
this point I am prone to believe the language, and to ignore the photos,
which are years old and may have been modified or based on prototype
tires. However, if a driver is shopping for replacement tires from Rivian, it
is probably good to inquire and be sure of what you'll be receiving.​

_____
* It is easy to (so far mistakenly) report a changeover to 33" AT tires, since that is what is used on Gen 2 All-Season wheel-sets for just the Dual Standard cars. (Those two model-variations--Dual Standard R1T and R1S--happen to get Goodyear Wrangler AT tires for the all-season wheel-sets. All the rest of the models get 20" AT wheel-sets with Pirelli AT 34" tires. Why, Rivian? Are the Dual Standard models test cases for a future wider switch to 33" and/or Goodyear-brand AT tires?)
** These mysterious Pirelli 275/60R20 tires portrayed on the Rivian website may be rare collector's items. If you have one, hold onto it.

PS -- On Sky Sports' coverage of Formula 1 Grand Prix racing, commentator Ted Kravitz jokingly refers to viewer "Tire Talk" fatigue (when on-air Sky employees find themselves over-analyzing race performance based primarily on [currently Pirelli] tires).

But dammit, tires are really important to vehicle performance, handling, range, speedometer function, and other factors. Sorry, but it is true.

When I visited my local Rivian service center the first time for a test drive, all I was looking at (concerning the wheels) was the appearance of the (metal) wheels and (aero) wheel-covers. Now what I see are wheel+tire sizes, sidewall heights, and tread design. (Wheel appearance is secondary, for me, now.)

 

[tps5352]

As I read more and more within this Forum site, it is interesting to see that (tire/wheel) issues being discussed/debated today were also 'hot' topics back even before the first Rivians were released to the general public. For example, a pair of December 2020 posts:

• What wheel size and what tires will deliver the best range?
  |
• Cast vs. Forged Wheels

For customers who reserved the first R1Ts and R1Ss, the wait until delivery and the time that followed probably seemed endless. But, of course, it has only been three years since the first cars hit the streets and trails of North America.

 

[kanundrum]

I got my Atomic Wheel setup with a 275/55/20 resulting in a 32" diameter 18lbs less rotational mass per corner w/ Goodyear Eagle Sport All-Season tires. Its been about 1k miles since I put them on in mid December and I an averaging about 2.09 in mega cold/very windy/snowy environments with mudflaps and roofbars. Ill eventually get a clean highway run in when the car is not caked in snow and salt but city performance has been outstanding (2.8/2.9/3+) m/kWh

City: (though I hear that guess o meter isn't the best).

My real question is

The car now takes more rotation to go more distance but is doing it more efficiency with less rotational mass in theory. Is the computer calculating everything accordingly or is it all false reporting because the math isn't mathing inside the car

 

[DayTripping]

Love the wheels. Did you adjust your efficiency numbers for the reduction in diameter?

 

[kanundrum]

Love the wheels. Did you adjust your efficiency numbers for the reduction in diameter?

You cant? not on the computer anyways.

 

[DayTripping]

I understand you can't adjust it yet (and likely never if a non-stock tire size if they follow Tesla's lead). I was just asking if you made and adjustment for that in the efficiency numbers your presented to reflect the different tire size which would throw off the miles driven.

 

[tps5352]

@McLeod

...275/55/20...32" diameter...tires..

This is interesting. For the benefit of readers new to the whole (Rivian) wheel-tire thing, here are some bullet points (using this website for calculations):

• @kanundrum's original wheel-set: Rivian OEM 22" Sport Bright (with 275/50R22 [33" Pirelli] tires).
  |
  (Ignore any wheel/tire changes to this car in-between.)
  |
• kanundrum's latest wheel-set: aftermarket wheels & tires (with 275/55/20 [32" Goodyear] tires).
  |
• Resulting in...
  |
  • 17.2 more revolutions required to travel one mile.
  • About an inch less in tire diameter, so a 2.9" smaller tire circumference (which affects the speedometer/odometer functions).|
  • If the speedometer reads 65 mph, the car would actually be traveling 63.2 mph.
    |
• I suspect that the odometer readings are affected, also. I am not exactly sure how modern EVs determine mileage readings, but my buddy Google tells me this:
  
  "If you install smaller tires on your car, your odometer will read a higher mileage than the actual distance traveled because smaller tires need to rotate more times to cover the same distance..."
  |
• If correct, it means that estimates of efficiency would be artificially over-estimated, correct? (By how much? Not sure.)
  |
• Is any of this a problem? I am not an expert, but I am thinking no; not with this set-up.
  |
  Assuming no change in wheel offset, there should be no safety issues from rubbing (width is the same and diameter is less). And the diameter change is relatively small. So changes to speedometer, odometer, and efficiency estimates should be no problem. (Less likelihood of getting a speeding ticket, right?) Unfortunately, imo it is unlikely (for legal and financial reasons) that Rivian will eventually provide wheel/tire size-option software that includes the choice of aftermarket sizes. Too bad.

So I am all for experimentation (for both appearance and, more cautiously, for performance), as long as drivers are aware of:

1. Safety concerns (e.g., by being sure to use tires that meet or exceed minimum load requirements).
   |​
2. Size issues (e.g., by preventing possibility of tire/wheel-rim rubbing during cornering, bumps, or with suspension lowered,...and resulting catastrophic failure under stressful situations).
   |​
3. Potential effects on computer functions (e.g., speedometer-odometer readings, camera positioning, etc.).​

BTW, the Atomic Wheels + Goodyear tires look good!

 

[tps5352]

...Rivian Gear Page website provides some interesting wheel and tire data...
More on this as information becomes available.

Here is an updated table of spare tire and accessory wheel-set information from the Rivian Gear Shop page:

Rivian Gear Shop Page Wheel and Tire Information​

Wheel Size (in.)	Tire Type	Brand/ Model	Tire Size (in.)	Tread Depth (in.)	Total Weight (lb.)	Compatibility
20​	AT​	Pirelli Scorpion AT+​	34 (275/65R20)​	12/32​	82​	Gen 1 Gen 2​
20​	AS*​	Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT​	33 (275/60R20)​	11/32​	77​	Gen 1 Gen 2​
22​	Sport​	Pirelli Scorpion MS​	33 (275/50R22)​	10/32​	75​	Gen 1 Gen 2​
22​	Range​	Pirelli Scorpion MS​	33 (275/50R22)​	10/32​	76​	Gen 1 Gen 2​

_____
*|||The 20-inch wheel and 33-inch tire combo is apparently still only offered with the Dual
|||||Standard R1T and R1S models.

Note that the First Generation 21" wheel-set is no
longer included on the current Gear Shop page.​

Abbreviations and Acronyms

• AT = All-Terrain
• AS = All-Season
• MS = mud & snow compatible
• Gen 1 = first generation R1 vehicles (2021-2024)
• Gen 2 = second generation R1 vehicles (2024 - present)

 

[tps5352]

Here is an updated version of a table I first created here (in another thread).

Based on latest Rivian webpage information:

Rivian Gen 2 (2025) R1 Vehicle Wheel & Tire Options​

Wheel/ Tire Sizes	Tires	Purpose	Dual Standard	Dual Large	Dual Max	Tri Max	Quad Max
275/60R20 (33")​	Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT​	All-Season​	X​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​
275/65R20 (34")​	Pirelli Scorpion AT Plus​	All-Terrain AT Dark​	- n/a -​	X X​	X X​	X X​	- n/a - X​
275/50R22 (33")​	Pirelli Scorpion MS​	Sport Bright Sport Dark​	X​	X X​	X X​	X X​	- n/a - X​
275/50R22 (33")​	Pirelli Scorpion MS​	Range​	X​	X​	X​	X​	- n/a -​
275/50R22 (33") [front]​	Michelin Pilot Sport SS​	Super Sport​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	X​
305/45R22 (33") [rear]​	Michelin Pilot Sport SS​	Super Sport​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	- n/a -​	X​

Notes

• AT = All-Terrain
• MS = mud & snow compatible
• n/a = not available (as a standard option)
• SS = Super Sport
• X = available
• The Quad Max (with an apparent emphasis on performance) may offer a Super Sport option with staggered Michelin tires. (Other wheel/tire option may be available for this, as of March 2025, unreleased, model.)

 

[mkhuffman]

@McLeod


This is interesting. For the benefit of readers new to the whole (Rivian) wheel-tire thing, here are some bullet points (using this website for calculations):

• @kanundrum's original wheel-set: Rivian OEM 22" Sport Bright (with 275/50R22 [33" Pirelli] tires).
  |
  (Ignore any wheel/tire changes to this car in-between.)
  |
• kanundrum's latest wheel-set: aftermarket wheels & tires (with 275/55/20 [32" Goodyear] tires).
  |
• Resulting in...
  |
  • 17.2 more revolutions required to travel one mile.
  • About an inch less in tire diameter, so a 2.9" smaller tire circumference (which affects the speedometer/odometer functions).|
  • If the speedometer reads 65 mph, the car would actually be traveling 63.2 mph.
    |
• I suspect that the odometer readings are affected, also. I am not exactly sure how modern EVs determine mileage readings, but my buddy Google tells me this:
  
  "If you install smaller tires on your car, your odometer will read a higher mileage than the actual distance traveled because smaller tires need to rotate more times to cover the same distance..."
  |
• If correct, it means that estimates of efficiency would be artificially over-estimated, correct? (By how much? Not sure.)
  |
• Is any of this a problem? I am not an expert, but I am thinking no; not with this set-up.
  |
  Assuming no change in wheel offset, there should be no safety issues from rubbing (width is the same and diameter is less). And the diameter change is relatively small. So changes to speedometer, odometer, and efficiency estimates should be no problem. (Less likelihood of getting a speeding ticket, right?) Unfortunately, imo it is unlikely (for legal and financial reasons) that Rivian will eventually provide wheel/tire size-option software that includes the choice of aftermarket sizes. Too bad.

So I am all for experimentation (for both appearance and, more cautiously, for performance), as long as drivers are aware of:

1. Safety concerns (e.g., by being sure to use tires that meet or exceed minimum load requirements).
   |​
2. Size issues (e.g., by preventing possibility of tire/wheel-rim rubbing during cornering, bumps, or with suspension lowered,...and resulting catastrophic failure under stressful situations).
   |​
3. Potential effects on computer functions (e.g., speedometer-odometer readings, camera positioning, etc.).​

BTW, the Atomic Wheels + Goodyear tires look good!

Good thread.

BTW - I would take kanundrum's efficiency numbers with the smaller wheels and reduce it by 2.7%. As you pointed out, the vehicle thinks it traveled more miles than it actually did, so the efficiency numbers are a little high.

So 3.4 mi/kWh * 0.973 = 3.31 mi/kWh.

@kanundrum - do you have highway efficiency numbers you can share now?

 

[kanundrum]

Good thread.

BTW - I would take kanundrum's efficiency numbers with the smaller wheels and reduce it by 2.7%. As you pointed out, the vehicle thinks it traveled more miles than it actually did, so the efficiency numbers are a little high.

So 3.4 mi/kWh * 0.973 = 3.31 mi/kWh.

@kanundrum - do you have highway efficiency numbers you can share now?

I haven't had much luck in traveling long distances with daycare and snow storms but here is some data from this morning

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